Somehow, I feel like the federated network is still centralized, because there is still censorship; it’s just distributed across more servers.
I mean, it definitely gives users more rights to free speech, and I’m not worried about privacy issues. However, the removal of content and the banning of accounts are things that are diminishing my passion for sharing my thoughts publicly(on reddit).
I just dont want this happened on here but I am seeing some…
Its decentralized nature isn’t due to censorship, or a lack of it, but its structure. Of course there’s going to be some degree of censorship because instances all have individual rules which, if you break, you’ll be penalized for which can take the form of removal of content.
The only way to have total free speech is create your own instance which is a total free for all but then you’ll attract the worst sort of people and your instance will end up defederated by instance owners who don’t want content from literal Nazis federated to their instances.
Wiremin appears to be more for a chatroom with defined participants. Not really a public forum type of app. If it is supposed to be, it would suffer drastically from a growing userbase. It looks more like a messaging system with defined recipients.
The great thing about this system though is that you can always create an account on your own instance, and interact with any instance that hasn’t been defederated from you.
You can create your own Lemmy or Kbin server just for you and post whatever you want. Whether other servers federate with you is another matter of course.
The Fediverse gives you absolute freedom of speech and everyone else absolute freedom to block you.
Why would this even be a consideration? Why is your default to misbehave? It’s attitudes like this that gives rise to moderation and censorship, because you can’t self moderate or behave without someone forcing you to.
You should have spent time reading the rules of your server before spending time with writing your content. It doesn’t matter if others care or not. Someone has a wall and is letting you write on it. It’s their wall, not yours. They can make their own rules. You are free to have your own wall.
Well it’s yours so you get to decide. Go make your own platform and you can have all the freedom you want. But it always seems to be that folks want a share of someone else’s platform, and when they can’t get it, their freedom has been taken away. SMH
Ya, I agree with you that no one is forced to actually listen to me, but removing content… I mean, I was spending a lot of time writing those and looking for replies, but they just remove it before anyone sees it… That sucks.
No one is required to host your content, spread your voice, give you a platform. You really need to stop using the term “freedom of speech” here. It means something totally different. Publisher won’t print your book? “Censorship!” This is what you sound like.
They’re literally saying it’s not censorship. If a publisher doesn’t publish your book, is it censorship? No. Folks aren’t forced to host your content if they don’t want to.
Exactly, thank you. It’s neither an infringement of free speech nor censorship. None of us has any entitlement to amplification here. We participate by the good graces of the mods and admins.
(I think this dude is 14 and still thinking of everything as black and white, and also everything being about him)
The great thing about this system though is that you can always create an account on your own instance, and interact with any instance that hasn’t been defederated from you.
However, the removal of content and the banning of accounts are things that are diminishing my passion for sharing my thoughts publicly(on reddit).
I just dont want this happened on here but I am seeing some…
Those post/comment removal and user banning are for a good reason. For every one innocent content removed there’s a large amount of harmful content removed as well.
It’s not about freedom of speech (or by some peoples interpretation it would be more accurately called ‘anarchy of speech’). The need for moderation still exists just as the rights higher in the hierarchy of human rights still exist and need protection - especially from armchair anarchists.
Hey now, anarchists don’t deserve this slander. Moderation typically falls under freedom of association/disassociation, which we’re strongly in favor of. The people you have a problem with are the ones that think you should be forced to listen to them, which is pretty contrary to the anarchist ethos.
The fediverse being decentralized means that there are many servers/instances, each with their own codes of conduct (or lack of one). Similarly, different communities on those servers can have different rules they might want to enforce with removals of posts or comments. For example, a community about cat pictures will have a rule about posts having to be cat pictures and will remove a post about your grandma’s vegetable soup recipe.
If your comment/post was removed, that probably means your post/comment was either against the rules of the community or against the code of conduct of the entire server/instance. If it’s the former, look for or create a community where that kind of content is appreciated. If you’re running up against the code of conduct of the instance, look for a server/instance where your content wouldn’t be violating the code of content or make your own server/instance where you’re the one defining the code of conduct. Of course, that code of conduct would only apply to communities on your server.
If your server becomes a source of constant shit, admins of other servers might decide to defederate from your server. Think of it like making your own email server: if too many of your email server’s emails are spam, other email providers might decide to designate your email server as a spam factory and block all emails coming from it.
I can’t help but feel that you’re conflating censorship with centralization.
A defederated network just means that the servers you’re on will choose what they’d like to censor. Running your own server or looking for one which you probably agree with is something which may work for you, while giving others the ability to defederate and not have to read what you’re saying.
If its a german instance they have to follow german law.
Just like if you’re an american living in germany. You don’t get to follow american law in germany. You have to abide by the local laws.
Take for example, the irish hosted lemmy defederated from another instance that allows posting … questionable/underage anime content. Its treated the same as CSAM under Irish law. Federating those instances would mean the admins of the irish instance would be liable for any data pulled over onto their instance.
This issue should be solved if you could just set lemmy to not cache federated NSFW images (without fully disabling NSFW on your instance) since then users would load the images from the remote server and not the homeserver.
True, guess not caching remote content at all should be an option as well. Then you can just block caching for every instance that doesn’t enforce proper tagging.
No, defederating would block all flow between instances. The problem is with hosting content that you don’t want to or arent allowed to host. Currently if I view a image from burggit, the image gets saved to the monero.town and then served whenever someone else views it from there, which is a problem. If instead every time someone wants to view that image, it gets pulled from burggit again, monero.town isn’t in trouble for hosting it anymore.
Your right to choose is the same as everybody else’s right to choose. You can decide to post something, and others can decide they don’t want to see it. Decentralized just means there is no one entity to make those decisions for you.
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Its decentralized nature isn’t due to censorship, or a lack of it, but its structure. Of course there’s going to be some degree of censorship because instances all have individual rules which, if you break, you’ll be penalized for which can take the form of removal of content.
The only way to have total free speech is create your own instance which is a total free for all but then you’ll attract the worst sort of people and your instance will end up defederated by instance owners who don’t want content from literal Nazis federated to their instances.
That second paragraph highlights exactly how the Fediverse works. If you’re a shitty friend, no one will want to be friends with you.
In this case I think WireMin could be a choice, they are 100% decentralized, so no censorship and pretty secure, its e2ee
Never heard about it
I am too lazy to type out all these words, just see it for yourself.
Wiremin appears to be more for a chatroom with defined participants. Not really a public forum type of app. If it is supposed to be, it would suffer drastically from a growing userbase. It looks more like a messaging system with defined recipients.
You’re mixing up words and definitions.
The great thing about this system though is that you can always create an account on your own instance, and interact with any instance that hasn’t been defederated from you.
I am not quite understand it, can you maybe explain a bit? Thx
You can create your own Lemmy or Kbin server just for you and post whatever you want. Whether other servers federate with you is another matter of course.
The Fediverse gives you absolute freedom of speech and everyone else absolute freedom to block you.
They can ban your account from a particular instance, but you always move to or create a new one.
I see, kind of like Nostr, right? But what about all the history, like messages and communities, that I was following from the other account?
Poof, gone.
ic, better to behave than
Why would this even be a consideration? Why is your default to misbehave? It’s attitudes like this that gives rise to moderation and censorship, because you can’t self moderate or behave without someone forcing you to.
Start your own instance and community. Post whatever the hell you like.
Then other instances choose whether to defederate. They federate by default.
There is no single point of control (centralisation) which decides what is seen on all instances.
If you start your own server, you moderate yourself.
Whether others want to federate with your server is up to them.
But other people who are on my server might think the same way as I mentioned
You should have spent time reading the rules of your server before spending time with writing your content. It doesn’t matter if others care or not. Someone has a wall and is letting you write on it. It’s their wall, not yours. They can make their own rules. You are free to have your own wall.
Well it’s yours so you get to decide. Go make your own platform and you can have all the freedom you want. But it always seems to be that folks want a share of someone else’s platform, and when they can’t get it, their freedom has been taken away. SMH
You don’t need to allow other people on your server.
You can absolutely have free speech, but nobody is forced to actually listen to you.
Which is good, because in the real world, every place that has “zero censorship” rapidly devolves into a Nazi invested shithole.
Ya, I agree with you that no one is forced to actually listen to me, but removing content… I mean, I was spending a lot of time writing those and looking for replies, but they just remove it before anyone sees it… That sucks.
No one is required to host your content, spread your voice, give you a platform. You really need to stop using the term “freedom of speech” here. It means something totally different. Publisher won’t print your book? “Censorship!” This is what you sound like.
Okay okay, stop being so angry about it man, you know I am talking about ‘censorship’ when I say ‘fos’
They’re literally saying it’s not censorship. If a publisher doesn’t publish your book, is it censorship? No. Folks aren’t forced to host your content if they don’t want to.
Exactly, thank you. It’s neither an infringement of free speech nor censorship. None of us has any entitlement to amplification here. We participate by the good graces of the mods and admins.
(I think this dude is 14 and still thinking of everything as black and white, and also everything being about him)
They’re afraid of my raw power!
I am😂
What did you post that got removed?
The great thing about this system though is that you can always create an account on your own instance, and interact with any instance that hasn’t been defederated from you.
Those post/comment removal and user banning are for a good reason. For every one innocent content removed there’s a large amount of harmful content removed as well.
yeah this seems like a self tell…
what is it they want to say that’s getting them banned?
I’ve literally never been banned off a platform before.
Federation and “censorship” aren’t mutually exclusive?
It’s not about freedom of speech (or by some peoples interpretation it would be more accurately called ‘anarchy of speech’). The need for moderation still exists just as the rights higher in the hierarchy of human rights still exist and need protection - especially from armchair anarchists.
Hey now, anarchists don’t deserve this slander. Moderation typically falls under freedom of association/disassociation, which we’re strongly in favor of. The people you have a problem with are the ones that think you should be forced to listen to them, which is pretty contrary to the anarchist ethos.
The fediverse being decentralized means that there are many servers/instances, each with their own codes of conduct (or lack of one). Similarly, different communities on those servers can have different rules they might want to enforce with removals of posts or comments. For example, a community about cat pictures will have a rule about posts having to be cat pictures and will remove a post about your grandma’s vegetable soup recipe.
If your comment/post was removed, that probably means your post/comment was either against the rules of the community or against the code of conduct of the entire server/instance. If it’s the former, look for or create a community where that kind of content is appreciated. If you’re running up against the code of conduct of the instance, look for a server/instance where your content wouldn’t be violating the code of content or make your own server/instance where you’re the one defining the code of conduct. Of course, that code of conduct would only apply to communities on your server.
If your server becomes a source of constant shit, admins of other servers might decide to defederate from your server. Think of it like making your own email server: if too many of your email server’s emails are spam, other email providers might decide to designate your email server as a spam factory and block all emails coming from it.
I can’t help but feel that you’re conflating censorship with centralization. A defederated network just means that the servers you’re on will choose what they’d like to censor. Running your own server or looking for one which you probably agree with is something which may work for you, while giving others the ability to defederate and not have to read what you’re saying.
you have been here an hour - I think you need to read some around how lemmy/federation and instances work.
Monero.town is very lax when it comes to moderation as long as you don’t say anything that could get you arrested in Germany.
What if I am in the US lol
If its a german instance they have to follow german law.
Just like if you’re an american living in germany. You don’t get to follow american law in germany. You have to abide by the local laws.
Take for example, the irish hosted lemmy defederated from another instance that allows posting … questionable/underage anime content. Its treated the same as CSAM under Irish law. Federating those instances would mean the admins of the irish instance would be liable for any data pulled over onto their instance.
This issue should be solved if you could just set lemmy to not cache federated NSFW images (without fully disabling NSFW on your instance) since then users would load the images from the remote server and not the homeserver.
But that also relies on posts being tagged correctly
True, guess not caching remote content at all should be an option as well. Then you can just block caching for every instance that doesn’t enforce proper tagging.
so… defederating. like is already happening
No, defederating would block all flow between instances. The problem is with hosting content that you don’t want to or arent allowed to host. Currently if I view a image from burggit, the image gets saved to the monero.town and then served whenever someone else views it from there, which is a problem. If instead every time someone wants to view that image, it gets pulled from burggit again, monero.town isn’t in trouble for hosting it anymore.
Your right to choose is the same as everybody else’s right to choose. You can decide to post something, and others can decide they don’t want to see it. Decentralized just means there is no one entity to make those decisions for you.