I’m with lemmy.world and I can still see beehaw recent posts and I can interact with them despite us being mutually defederated. How does this actually work?
Beehaw has very strict moderation, like a traditional forum. They want a small, closed community where they can look out but nobody else can come in. (They’ve even mentioned they would switch to an allowlist if it could be made one-way.)
Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works had easy sign-ups and Beehaw said the ease of sign-ups were responsible for a lot of trolls and bad actors. So Beehaw defederated from both those instances until they made sign-ups harder.
It was because lemmy.world was experiencing explosive growth and did not have a good mechanism in place to limit spam and troll accounts. This combined with Lemmy’s still infant moderating tools made it difficult for Beehaw to contend with the influx of lemmy.world users who were harassing beehaw users.
A mutual decision was made between both beehaw and lemmy.world to temporarily defederate while the moderation tools are worked on. They fully intend to re-federate once these tools are in place, as both instances have a fairly similar attitude towards harassment and hate speech.
There was no disagreement between the admins of beehaw and lemmy.world
I think it’s also important to understand that defederation is a key feature of the fediverse, not something necessarily bad. It allows us to create interconnected communities that fit the needs of different people.
Beehaw and Lemmy.world have similar goals but different strategies, so they defederate so that Beehaw won’t have to be subject to moderation issues facing Lemmy.world. That’s perfectly fine - Beehaw are not morally obliged to receive content from Lemmy.world. Their users know the content policy of the page, and choose to stay out of their own free will.
Another server might have their own intolerances, even seemingly problematic ones like blasphemy or the letter e. They’re free to defederate as they see fit.
This is not breaking the fediverse - it’s a major feature of the fediverse by design.
And there’s a way around it. Make two accounts so you can see both sides of the “disconnected” instances. The biggest problem with that was how to duplicate your existing account to make it feel more seamless, but already someone has begun a tool to help do most of that for you. One step closer to some type of universal login, at least through Lemmy instances. The caveat is that it now falls on the user to make sure they know where they’re posting and what rules that are part of the defederation they should avoid breaking.
That explains it thanks. I thought we were mutually defederated (that’s what I heard anyway). So essentially, if I were to comment under one of their posts, their users won’t see my comment?
I’m pretty sure other lemmy.world users would see each others interactions, not sure how other instances would see it. I would assume others would, if they’re federated with world
I think not, even if other servers are federated with World, they are pulling the comments from Beehaw, so they wouldn’t see the comment. Your instance doesn’t check every other instance for the comments on a thread, just the instance that owns the community.
your home instance is making a copy of the remote instance.
Comments you make are on the local copy your home instance made.
Your instance tells the remote instance the comments made in your home copy.
Comments in your home copy are written to the remote instance.
Instances now have your comment when they copy the remote instance
Defederation breaks the process at step 3.
So your instance is still copying their remote content, and you can still see and comment on it, but those comments are only in your home instance. They can only be seen from people within your home instance looking at the same copy.
I thought I read somewhere that other local users can also see your comments?
I wonder if that applies to other federated instances as well. Like if my home instance (lemmygrad.ml) is federated with lemmy.ml, and I make a post on BeeHaw (which is not federated with either), could lemmy.ml users see my comment?
The host instance is responsible for federating (is that a word?) the posts/comments to others. So any comments on lemmy.world to a beehaw community will only show to other lemmy.world users. No one on lemmy.ml would see them.
So, the way federation works is via content mirroring, not tunneling. You’re not accessing beehaw.org from lemmy.world, you’re reading copies of posts published on beehaw.org. When beehaw defederated, they just… Stopped sending new content. That does nothing to the older content that was already sent.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
No such thing. Ask away!
!nostupidquestions is a community space dedicated to being helpful and answering each others’ questions on various topics.
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All posts titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That’s it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it’s in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content. Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
Partnered Communities
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
Community Moderation
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
Matrix Chat Room
To find & join our chat room, log into fluffychat.im(or any other matrix client) and put #nostupidquestions:matrix.org on the search bar.
Credits
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
And why did beehaw.org defederate?
Beehaw has very strict moderation, like a traditional forum. They want a small, closed community where they can look out but nobody else can come in. (They’ve even mentioned they would switch to an allowlist if it could be made one-way.)
Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works had easy sign-ups and Beehaw said the ease of sign-ups were responsible for a lot of trolls and bad actors. So Beehaw defederated from both those instances until they made sign-ups harder.
I think because of different political view. They’re not allowing content from other instances that might share different opinions.
It was because lemmy.world was experiencing explosive growth and did not have a good mechanism in place to limit spam and troll accounts. This combined with Lemmy’s still infant moderating tools made it difficult for Beehaw to contend with the influx of lemmy.world users who were harassing beehaw users.
A mutual decision was made between both beehaw and lemmy.world to temporarily defederate while the moderation tools are worked on. They fully intend to re-federate once these tools are in place, as both instances have a fairly similar attitude towards harassment and hate speech.
There was no disagreement between the admins of beehaw and lemmy.world
I think it’s also important to understand that defederation is a key feature of the fediverse, not something necessarily bad. It allows us to create interconnected communities that fit the needs of different people.
Beehaw and Lemmy.world have similar goals but different strategies, so they defederate so that Beehaw won’t have to be subject to moderation issues facing Lemmy.world. That’s perfectly fine - Beehaw are not morally obliged to receive content from Lemmy.world. Their users know the content policy of the page, and choose to stay out of their own free will.
Another server might have their own intolerances, even seemingly problematic ones like blasphemy or the letter e. They’re free to defederate as they see fit.
This is not breaking the fediverse - it’s a major feature of the fediverse by design.
And there’s a way around it. Make two accounts so you can see both sides of the “disconnected” instances. The biggest problem with that was how to duplicate your existing account to make it feel more seamless, but already someone has begun a tool to help do most of that for you. One step closer to some type of universal login, at least through Lemmy instances. The caveat is that it now falls on the user to make sure they know where they’re posting and what rules that are part of the defederation they should avoid breaking.
No, it’s because of a lack of moderating capacity.
They’re not mutually defederated. lemmy.world is pulling from beehaw but not vice versa
That explains it thanks. I thought we were mutually defederated (that’s what I heard anyway). So essentially, if I were to comment under one of their posts, their users won’t see my comment?
Thats how I understand it works, yeah. Beehaw wont pull your comment’s through
But would other instances (including lemmy.world) still see that comment?
I’m pretty sure other lemmy.world users would see each others interactions, not sure how other instances would see it. I would assume others would, if they’re federated with world
I think not, even if other servers are federated with World, they are pulling the comments from Beehaw, so they wouldn’t see the comment. Your instance doesn’t check every other instance for the comments on a thread, just the instance that owns the community.
This is correct.
Comments made locally on an instance that has been defederated from the owning remote instance only exist on that local instance.
I’m not clear on what happens when refederation occurs…
I think that posts made when the instance was defederated will not be there, but posts made after will be. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I think lemmy.world users can see it, but nobody else can.
From my understanding, in a federated scenario,
Defederation breaks the process at step 3.
So your instance is still copying their remote content, and you can still see and comment on it, but those comments are only in your home instance. They can only be seen from people within your home instance looking at the same copy.
You can see the posts, but any interactions are like you talking into the void.
I thought I read somewhere that other local users can also see your comments?
I wonder if that applies to other federated instances as well. Like if my home instance (lemmygrad.ml) is federated with lemmy.ml, and I make a post on BeeHaw (which is not federated with either), could lemmy.ml users see my comment?
The host instance is responsible for federating (is that a word?) the posts/comments to others. So any comments on lemmy.world to a beehaw community will only show to other lemmy.world users. No one on lemmy.ml would see them.
Aren’t we all…
No. I hear you. I see you. And gosh darn it people like you.
Now shut up while I eat my beans
The problem I see here is between lemmy.ca and Beehaw.org, they are federated both way but out of sync completely, no mirroring, no pull, nothing.
Your lemmy instance essentially makes a copy of the post, but the copy version can’t sync comments/votes back to the main original version
So, the way federation works is via content mirroring, not tunneling. You’re not accessing beehaw.org from lemmy.world, you’re reading copies of posts published on beehaw.org. When beehaw defederated, they just… Stopped sending new content. That does nothing to the older content that was already sent.
It’s two way,
beehaw.orgblockslemmy.worldwhilelemmy.worldlinksbeehaw.org. You can see their posts, but they can’t see yours.