I don’t tend to eat much fish, but in the supermarket earlier I saw some smoked salmon which didn’t need cooking, and some salmon fillets which did. They looked the same really - both ‘raw’. I decided to buy some of the fillet. It was nice, but a very different flavour from when I’ve tried smoked salmon in the past. The cooked fillet was quite chicken-y with a slight earthy/fishy taste, whereas smoked salmon has a very strong fish flavour.
Why do they taste so different? And why is smoked salmon safe to eat without cooking when other smoked fish do need cooking?
That doesn’t apply if the temperature is below what’s needed to kill bacteria and cold smoked salmon is smoked at temperatures too low to kill bacteria. Smoking inhibits bacteria growth a bit, but it’s mostly the curing that does it, and neither kill bacteria, it just slows it and allows healthy bacteria to take hold.
There’s also hot smoked salmon which is low and slow and above kill temp, but that has a much more cooked texture so op is probably talking about cold smoking. Cold smoking is riskier to do at home for these reasons and store cold smoked salmon is carefully controlled.
This really shouldn’t be the top rated comment. Cold smoked salmon is smoked at 15-25°C for about half a day. If temperature were the key, you would achieve the same effect by just placing it on the countertop overnight.
I didn’t realise how complex this was! So with hot smoked salmon, the temperature is hot enough to kill bacteria but not denature the protein (so it still looks ‘raw’). Cold smoked doesn’t cook the fish but imparts the smoky flavour, and it’s made safe to eat by other preservation methods? (as per @[email protected]’s comment)
Yes, @[email protected] is correct (sorry, I haven’t figured out yet how to link usernames). Hot smoked food usually doesn’t keep for more than a few days, if that, because it is cooked. AFAIK, in cold smoking, the smoke itself even has a preserving effect because it kills surface bacteria and dehydrates the outer crust, but the fish is also salted or brined. As noted in other comments, there are a wide variety of different techniques.
Note: I’m not an expert, so I may be off on the details. I just used to work next door to a smokery and chatted with the owners sometimes.
Well, smoking is a wide variety of processes and very food dependent, but hot smoked food is usually cooked. For example, if you buy Alaskan smoked salmon, they look cooked and a bit jerky like; similarly, for Texas style smoked briskets, the meat is cooked slowly over a couple of hours inside a smoker.
Maybe it would be easier to watch a video on cold smoked salmon to see how the process works.
It’s salmon, you can eat that thing raw if you like, like beef too, just that with salmon you have to fully freeze it once to kill potential parasite worms.
Safe is a spectrum, I suppose. I eat rare beef and runny eggs, but there’s always a safety warning at the bottom of the menu. Still, the level of “safe” is a function of both temperature and time, at least according to the USDA.
Runny eggs are normal eggs I think, who boils them to the full hardness?
I mean sure it’s raw beef, bacteria will love it but as long as it’s fresh and well handled it can totally be eaten raw, unlike pork or chicken for example. I don’t mean rare, I mean raw, fully uncooked. Steak Tartar or carpaccio for example, two absolutely delicious meals.
Your and my threshold for acceptable risk seems to be similar. But we’re taking a risk. If you graph that risk, it lowers predictably based on time cooked, and the rate at which it lowers increases at higher temperatures. That was my only point, and I’m not sure if you’re disagreeing or just providing anecdotes and your preferences.
According to my experience most people do like their eggs hardboiled. Personally I hate it, but I always have to specify and then I get hardboiled anyway.
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Low heat for long time = safe
High heat for short time = safe
High heat breaks down more compounds in meat and makes colors change
This is correct generally but doesn’t apply in this case
So how does low heat kill bacteria and make it safe? Why do people generally cook smoked haddock but not smoked salmon - different bacteria?
The same ways extreme temperatures would kill you faster the more extreme they are.
I don’t know about the difference between those two fish, but I suspect it’s more to do with texture and flavor than safety.
Oh, with a knife. Got it.
That doesn’t apply if the temperature is below what’s needed to kill bacteria and cold smoked salmon is smoked at temperatures too low to kill bacteria. Smoking inhibits bacteria growth a bit, but it’s mostly the curing that does it, and neither kill bacteria, it just slows it and allows healthy bacteria to take hold.
There’s also hot smoked salmon which is low and slow and above kill temp, but that has a much more cooked texture so op is probably talking about cold smoking. Cold smoking is riskier to do at home for these reasons and store cold smoked salmon is carefully controlled.
This really shouldn’t be the top rated comment. Cold smoked salmon is smoked at 15-25°C for about half a day. If temperature were the key, you would achieve the same effect by just placing it on the countertop overnight.
I didn’t realise how complex this was! So with hot smoked salmon, the temperature is hot enough to kill bacteria but not denature the protein (so it still looks ‘raw’). Cold smoked doesn’t cook the fish but imparts the smoky flavour, and it’s made safe to eat by other preservation methods? (as per @[email protected]’s comment)
Yes, @[email protected] is correct (sorry, I haven’t figured out yet how to link usernames). Hot smoked food usually doesn’t keep for more than a few days, if that, because it is cooked. AFAIK, in cold smoking, the smoke itself even has a preserving effect because it kills surface bacteria and dehydrates the outer crust, but the fish is also salted or brined. As noted in other comments, there are a wide variety of different techniques. Note: I’m not an expert, so I may be off on the details. I just used to work next door to a smokery and chatted with the owners sometimes.
Oh don’t worry, you did it right!
Well, smoking is a wide variety of processes and very food dependent, but hot smoked food is usually cooked. For example, if you buy Alaskan smoked salmon, they look cooked and a bit jerky like; similarly, for Texas style smoked briskets, the meat is cooked slowly over a couple of hours inside a smoker.
Maybe it would be easier to watch a video on cold smoked salmon to see how the process works.
It’s salmon, you can eat that thing raw if you like, like beef too, just that with salmon you have to fully freeze it once to kill potential parasite worms.
Safe is a spectrum, I suppose. I eat rare beef and runny eggs, but there’s always a safety warning at the bottom of the menu. Still, the level of “safe” is a function of both temperature and time, at least according to the USDA.
Runny eggs are normal eggs I think, who boils them to the full hardness?
I mean sure it’s raw beef, bacteria will love it but as long as it’s fresh and well handled it can totally be eaten raw, unlike pork or chicken for example. I don’t mean rare, I mean raw, fully uncooked. Steak Tartar or carpaccio for example, two absolutely delicious meals.
Even those can be eaten raw in the right circumstances. Just ask a German for Mettbrötchen
Your and my threshold for acceptable risk seems to be similar. But we’re taking a risk. If you graph that risk, it lowers predictably based on time cooked, and the rate at which it lowers increases at higher temperatures. That was my only point, and I’m not sure if you’re disagreeing or just providing anecdotes and your preferences.
According to my experience most people do like their eggs hardboiled. Personally I hate it, but I always have to specify and then I get hardboiled anyway.