I would say that a species intelligent enough to believe in God could be divine. So I don’t think orangutans or gorillas would be, but we have archaeologic evidence that Neanderthals had some form of religion, so they may also have souls.
Unfortunately not all of us are blessed with spren and Nahel bonds to prove the existence of the supernatural to us, so it’s understandable that some react negatively to all discussions of it.
Man is just another animal, typically worse than those that walk on all fours. Which is to say, no; there is no divinity to be found in mortality. Neither in man, nor orangutan, neither in eukaryote or prokaryote.
If you’re ok with being put alongside your family in the same row as some feces throwing hairy animals, because some guys - that might as well change their opinion tomorrow - told you it’s ok, I’m not going to stop you.
Me? I don’t feel much kinship with gorillas, thank you very much.
Where then? I mean, you seem to be more confident in yourself than most biologists, so you sure know more than them and can prove why humans belong to a different category?
If you’re willing to grant me some considerable amount of money to perform relevant research and studies, I can provide a satisfactory answer.
If you can’t, or aren’t willing to, then you need to continue to live knowing that at least one person in this world doesn’t exactly accept the model of reality you prefer.
This guy literally just said that he doesn’t believe in evolution because he doesn’t feel like it.
Actually, I have no problem with evolution. It’s just that I don’t believe in the forced division of species, one that puts us in the same cage as gorillas.
…but, since you have obvious sexual feelings towards these funny creatures, godspeed, and may you bring beautiful children to this world.
It’s just that I don’t believe in the forced division of species,
What does that even mean? “Species” isn’t an actual thing that exists, it’s a way of classifying creatures that we find useful.
one that puts us in the same cage as gorillas.
“In the same cage”? Presumably you can accept that you have some things in common with the gorilla: you both have a heart, both have lungs, both sneeze from time to time, both need to sleep, etc. The “cage” is a continuum.
I know that you’re asking rhetorically, since you have no idea how science works. But to anyone else who’s interested, the reason is because we found a dwarf planet in the asteroid belt that was bigger than Pluto, and it became hard to justify that Pluto was a planet if the planet that we found was a dwarf planet. Either both had to be planets or both had to be dwarf planets. And we ended up making both of them dwarf planets
I know that you’re asking rhetorically, since you have no idea how science works.
I know how science works. It discovers, analyzes, proposes a hypothesis, that becomes a theory and then - widely accepted “truth”.
…and then, often the same truth becomes an obsolete relic of old, once enough new findings emerge, or enough of scientists agree that new definitions, approach and formulas are required.
I know, you don’t exactly understand it, you prefer to follow to the letter everything you’re being told, and trust what people in funny uniforms say, no matter what. The bad news is that it places you in the same spot medieval (and unfortunately current) Flat Earthers occupy. The good news is that you’re about to see many changes to current “truths” across your lifetime.
So, enjoy the ride.
And we ended up making both of them dwarf planets
Imagine if the opposite camp would be more convincing/charismatic/numerous and instead of stripping off Pluto of his former status, we’d get more planets to our Solar System. Wow, what a preposterous idea!
In reality, nothing has changed. Pluto is still what it was, and it continues to move in its own slow pace across its trajectory. It’s just that some funny people decided to settle a difficult topic by a compromise.
Same thing with the funny people who decided to equate humans with gorillas. Their distinction is also artificial, forced and imperfect. A compromise. Nothing else.
The meaning of “planet” has changed greatly over the centuries as our understanding improved. It originally meant “wanderer” and referred to the five naked-eye planets known since antiquity plus the sun and moon, but NOT the Earth.
As astronomers and astrophysicists learned more about them, it became clear that classifying all stellar objects as the same category was unworkable. Earth was reclassified as a planet, the moon as a moon, and the sun as a star.
Likewise, Pluto was reclassified because the old classification made little sense.
There’s an enormous gap between “we’re better than SOME animals”, and “we’re no part of nature”. It’s so vast, that you could throw whole flotilla of USA’s Navy inside and it wouldn’t even cover its bottom.
And yet, you managed to cross this distance in a single mental leap. Nicely done.
I mean one of the greatest miracles you see religion do is interpret the bible to say what they want it to say. This is why you get one branch saying the LGBTQ+ community is horrible and another branch welcomes them with open arms. The same can be said about any social debate.
Depends on which philosophy you ascribe to I suppose. While standard Judeo-Christian philosophy would most likely dismiss the notion of divine orangutans, I for one would posit that orangutans by thier very nature are divine and that humans may in fact be the only creatures on the planet that must struggle toward divinity.
Edit: my network is being just, like, absolute crap. I don’t know why it posted multiple times. Such is the life of rural America, living with a 4g hotspot for home internet. Lol. Apologies!
I’m a sort of hodge podge of different traditions, philosophies and religions, and this is absolutely my view. In Hinduism, one of the reasons humans are at the “top” of the reincarnation cycle is because we have the intellect to understand things like karma, and are able to achieve liberation through that understanding. In my view, while we may be the only ones able to achieve liberation, we are also the only ones building up negative karma. It’s a double edged sword. Animals, plants, bacteria, they don’t do wrong things, they don’t engage in wrong thinking. They act on impulse, on intuition, on instinct, and as such, they’re pure spirited. Humans on the other hand are capable of evil, and as such we are the only species on earth that must struggle towards divinity. We just also happen to be the only species that can understand the nature of divinity. You don’t think the universe be like it is but it do, y’know?
If anything’s divine, it all is. Picking and choosing what’s divine and what’s not is just people making up stories to suit their own purposes. In the end, concepts like “divine” and “holy” are not very useful and often harmful.
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I would say that a species intelligent enough to believe in God could be divine. So I don’t think orangutans or gorillas would be, but we have archaeologic evidence that Neanderthals had some form of religion, so they may also have souls.
Interesting perspective!
Hindus literally have a monkey god.
This is a fantastic point. Thank you for adding it to the discussion.
It’s a made up definition which varies depending on whose fairytales you believe.
Factually correct but irrelevant in the context of the LARP
This is a blatantly unhelpful answer.
It is the only correct answer.
This is a blatantly pointless reply.
Unfortunately not all of us are blessed with spren and Nahel bonds to prove the existence of the supernatural to us, so it’s understandable that some react negatively to all discussions of it.
Journey before destination, Radiant.
Man is just another animal, typically worse than those that walk on all fours. Which is to say, no; there is no divinity to be found in mortality. Neither in man, nor orangutan, neither in eukaryote or prokaryote.
Humans aren’t great apes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae
If you’re ok with being put alongside your family in the same row as some feces throwing hairy animals, because some guys - that might as well change their opinion tomorrow - told you it’s ok, I’m not going to stop you.
Me? I don’t feel much kinship with gorillas, thank you very much.
I mean, where do you put humans as a species then
Nowhere near gorillas.
I am sure that the scientific model of evolution is vast and flexible enough, so that we don’t have to occupy the same place those creatures dwell in.
Where then? I mean, you seem to be more confident in yourself than most biologists, so you sure know more than them and can prove why humans belong to a different category?
If you’re willing to grant me some considerable amount of money to perform relevant research and studies, I can provide a satisfactory answer.
If you can’t, or aren’t willing to, then you need to continue to live knowing that at least one person in this world doesn’t exactly accept the model of reality you prefer.
If you don’t have research backing you, why are you so confident? Just because you feel like it?
This guy literally just said that he doesn’t believe in evolution because he doesn’t feel like it.
I gotta hand it to you, you managed to give the worst anti-evolution argument I’ve heard yet
Actually, I have no problem with evolution. It’s just that I don’t believe in the forced division of species, one that puts us in the same cage as gorillas.
…but, since you have obvious sexual feelings towards these funny creatures, godspeed, and may you bring beautiful children to this world.
Man, what the fuck are you taking about?
I can copy & paste the comment once again, this time separating each line for your convenience, if that helps.
Just ask, I’m always glad to help those less fortunate…
What does that even mean? “Species” isn’t an actual thing that exists, it’s a way of classifying creatures that we find useful.
“In the same cage”? Presumably you can accept that you have some things in common with the gorilla: you both have a heart, both have lungs, both sneeze from time to time, both need to sleep, etc. The “cage” is a continuum.
Yeah, nah, you’re boring.
How are we not great apes? I’ve taken 2 whole anthropology classes and this is the first I’m hearing of this! /s
For real, though, would love an answer. These things interest me.
How can Pluto cease to be a planet overnight?
I know that you’re asking rhetorically, since you have no idea how science works. But to anyone else who’s interested, the reason is because we found a dwarf planet in the asteroid belt that was bigger than Pluto, and it became hard to justify that Pluto was a planet if the planet that we found was a dwarf planet. Either both had to be planets or both had to be dwarf planets. And we ended up making both of them dwarf planets
I know how science works. It discovers, analyzes, proposes a hypothesis, that becomes a theory and then - widely accepted “truth”.
…and then, often the same truth becomes an obsolete relic of old, once enough new findings emerge, or enough of scientists agree that new definitions, approach and formulas are required.
I know, you don’t exactly understand it, you prefer to follow to the letter everything you’re being told, and trust what people in funny uniforms say, no matter what. The bad news is that it places you in the same spot medieval (and unfortunately current) Flat Earthers occupy. The good news is that you’re about to see many changes to current “truths” across your lifetime.
So, enjoy the ride.
Imagine if the opposite camp would be more convincing/charismatic/numerous and instead of stripping off Pluto of his former status, we’d get more planets to our Solar System. Wow, what a preposterous idea!
In reality, nothing has changed. Pluto is still what it was, and it continues to move in its own slow pace across its trajectory. It’s just that some funny people decided to settle a difficult topic by a compromise.
Same thing with the funny people who decided to equate humans with gorillas. Their distinction is also artificial, forced and imperfect. A compromise. Nothing else.
The meaning of “planet” has changed greatly over the centuries as our understanding improved. It originally meant “wanderer” and referred to the five naked-eye planets known since antiquity plus the sun and moon, but NOT the Earth.
As astronomers and astrophysicists learned more about them, it became clear that classifying all stellar objects as the same category was unworkable. Earth was reclassified as a planet, the moon as a moon, and the sun as a star.
Likewise, Pluto was reclassified because the old classification made little sense.
…and, given time and enough of a change to relevant peoples’ mindset, so does the classification of both some animals and humans might change.
Because that’s how science was, is and will ever be - a mutable “phenomenon”, where rigidity means lack of progress.
I see no problem in that.
…you seem to be vacillating between anti-science and science-literate positions.
Ordo ab chao.
Quam valde stultus est.
Mid apes.
Only from the perspective that sees camels as “mid dogs”, probably…
Dank apes
Sure they are. Why do some humans think they are better then other animals and not part of nature?
There’s an enormous gap between “we’re better than SOME animals”, and “we’re no part of nature”. It’s so vast, that you could throw whole flotilla of USA’s Navy inside and it wouldn’t even cover its bottom.
And yet, you managed to cross this distance in a single mental leap. Nicely done.
what does mean divine mean, I feel like that is a far bigger question then what you’re asking
Good thought. I will think about this next time I’m in the shower.
The eternal question : Does a dog have buddha nature? https://buddhaweekly.com/the-gateless-gate-and-the-door-of-mu-does-a-dog-have-buddha-nature-and-other-breakthrough-koan-riddles/
Divine is a space you create with your will (Yi) and soul (Shen). Put in it what you want.
I mean one of the greatest miracles you see religion do is interpret the bible to say what they want it to say. This is why you get one branch saying the LGBTQ+ community is horrible and another branch welcomes them with open arms. The same can be said about any social debate.
Depends on which philosophy you ascribe to I suppose. While standard Judeo-Christian philosophy would most likely dismiss the notion of divine orangutans, I for one would posit that orangutans by thier very nature are divine and that humans may in fact be the only creatures on the planet that must struggle toward divinity.
deleted by creator
Edit: my network is being just, like, absolute crap. I don’t know why it posted multiple times. Such is the life of rural America, living with a 4g hotspot for home internet. Lol. Apologies!
I’m a sort of hodge podge of different traditions, philosophies and religions, and this is absolutely my view. In Hinduism, one of the reasons humans are at the “top” of the reincarnation cycle is because we have the intellect to understand things like karma, and are able to achieve liberation through that understanding. In my view, while we may be the only ones able to achieve liberation, we are also the only ones building up negative karma. It’s a double edged sword. Animals, plants, bacteria, they don’t do wrong things, they don’t engage in wrong thinking. They act on impulse, on intuition, on instinct, and as such, they’re pure spirited. Humans on the other hand are capable of evil, and as such we are the only species on earth that must struggle towards divinity. We just also happen to be the only species that can understand the nature of divinity. You don’t think the universe be like it is but it do, y’know?
I’d like to point out that chimpanzees are pretty evil, but then again they are a great ape as well
“That piece of evidence allowed the researchers to link the murders with a motive – that of gaining new ground.”
https://www.livescience.com/8316-chimpanzee-gangs-kill-land.html
Fair enough. The other great apes, elephants, dolphins and a few other species sort of blur the line between animal and people in some ways.
deleted by creator
This seems like a question for your preferred religious representative, not Lemmy.
If anything’s divine, it all is. Picking and choosing what’s divine and what’s not is just people making up stories to suit their own purposes. In the end, concepts like “divine” and “holy” are not very useful and often harmful.
Harambe, blessed be thy name, he died for our sins.
Valid. RIP
I look like an orangutan but I’m not divine or owt
Yes.
Proof:
Lock the thread, we have our answer.