In what appears to be an escalating incursion into a user’s digital privacy, a collective of film companies continue to implore the court to compel Reddit to surrender its users’ personal details. This move is part of an ongoing piracy liability case against Internet Service Providers. Reddit, however, steadfastly resists, staunchly defending its users’ rights to anonymous speech.
Maybe I’m missing context, but the article doesn’t mention what this admission looked like. Was it just a use saying “yeah I downloaded the new ghostbusters movie, it sucked glad I didn’t pay for it”, or was it someone admitting to camming/distributing/facilitating piracy at a base level? Surely they are not going after someone for just casually mentioning they pirated a movie?
You’re talking about the people that sued a single mother for millions because she uploaded a video of her child with a Beyonce song faintly in the background. These people are psychopaths.
Wait, is it even possible to pay for movies outside of a movie theater?? I have taught everyone I know how to use bittorrent because I assumed that was a basic computer literacy thing. My grandma regularly pirates TV shows so they have something to watch at her adult daycare. That old bitch even offers DVD copies for a buck fifty.
I’ve always thought it had something to do with absolving themselves if liability.
From what I understand, companies hired by copyright owners send a DMCA request to whichever ISP owns the IP addresses that show up in their honeypots.
ISP has to act on those requests in some way, so they send a sternly worded letter that basically says “we have been notified that your network was used to download copyrighted material illegally. Piracy is bad, you naughty boy/girl. If this continues, we may have to take action which could include canceling your service (don’t worry we won’t because we want your money)”.
Hypothetically, they could turn your information over to the digital rights company, who then could hypothetically file charges against you, but there is established judicial precedent in the US that says that showing that activity came from a specific IP address isn’t enough to convict an individual of a crime without more evidence. Could have been anyone in the household, or it could have been someone who hacked into the network and used it for piracy.
If we want to get even more hypothetical, they could try to convince a judge to issue a search warrant, seize your device, and look for evidence there, which could be used to convict you. But that is an insane amount of effort to go after one of the hundreds of thousands of people who downloaded an episode of game of thrones an Ubuntu ISO.
They do pull out all of those stops going after the original uploaded, though, but if that’s you you’re using way more than a VPN.
Okay, so I kind of lied, when I set up my radarr/sonarr/transmission/etc docked compose setup earlier this year, I did purchase PIA VPN, which is like $60 per year I believe. Didn’t want to have to think about it anymore, and I can afford it now, so whatever.
But still, over 20 years, that’s like a $1200 savings. When all that you’re realistically risking is having to switch ISPs, and that’s so unlikely that I’ve never met anyone who had to do it, I don’t think it’s as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Having said that, don’t pirate things without a VPN and blame me when the fuzz comes for ya
Before using a VPN, I was sent numerous letters from my isp to knock it off. It really depends on both isp and where you live. If you live in the US, my understanding is that it’s the isp who can get sued for allowing you to pirate, so while they don’t want to lose your money and will give you numerous chances, they will eventually cease to do business with you.
I’m using surfshark, I got it a 3 year subscription on a discount a while back. On reddit they had r/vpndeals if I remember right, that was a good source to find discounts. Not sure if there’s a similar community here on Lemmy
Yep, I’ve pirated so much that my whole crew all refer to me as Captain Jack Sparrow. My MO is to fire a warning shot over the bow of every movie studio and if they don’t quickly capitulate, I’ll raise the Jolly Roger and take them by force. That’s the only true pirate’s modus operandi.
IIRC they aren’t prosecuting these users, instead they want to make them be witnesses in a case against an ISP they want to say wasn’t doing enough to stop piracy. The Reddit posts were about whether the ISP takes action against pirates or something like that.
Oh in that case I admit to pirating hundreds of movies while connected to the wifi on holiday at Disney Land. I’m happy to be a witness in a case if one of these scum bags wish to take on The Mouse.
I don’t think ISP’s have any duty to prevent piracy, or anything else for that matter. Their business is providing internet to their customers, not policing each and every action
If you use encryption (I always change the settings from “prefer” to “require” encryption on every install), the ISPs literally can’t identify what you’re downloading.
So the IP enforcement companies send the ISP a letter saying “this IP was illegally downloading our stuff. We don’t actually have proof, but trust us and punish them.”
Big surprise, a ton of ISPs just ignore them.
Edit: to be clear, I’m only saying encryption prevents your ISP from seeing what you’re downloading. IP (intellectual property) enforcers who participate in the torrent are the ones who inform your ISP, but their letters to the ISPs have no teeth. Some ISPs care, but a lot just ignore the letters. You still definitely want to use a VPN for all public trackers.
I don’t think that’s true. I’m pretty certain they simply hop on a torrent client with an illegal torrent for their movie and record the IP addresses they see seeding and leeching. Then simply compel the responsible ISP to reveal which of their customers currently has that IP leased.
That is exactly what happens. Encryption on the protocol doesn’t do anything but hide what you’re downloading from your ISP. It doesn’t prevent someone from downloading the same torrent and matching your IP to it. That’s why people recommend that you use VPNs if you’re going to do this from your house.
Your ISP can’t see what you’re downloading if you encrypt, but the IP (intellectual property) enforcers still can if they’re participating in the torrent. Then they find out which ISP that IP (address) belongs to and sends them a letter saying “we caught your subscriber downloading XYZ illegally.”
However, at least one US district court has ruled that just catching an IP address downloading a torrent illegally isn’t proof that any particular person illegally downloaded the IP (intellectual property). As a result, some ISPs simply ignore the letters the IP enforcers send, while some of the bigger ones count “strikes” against the subscriber with that IP address.
Reddit understands it’s value is in content to sell. If reddit starts ratting out it’s free content creators, they lose value. Their actions are a profit calculation, not some noble stand to protect privacy.
Based on zero data and just my impression, it seems like only a minority of us were actually willing to leave over it. They might make more money money from addicts using the ad app or buying gold than they lose from reduced content creation.
You are the product, not the paying customer. That means you are cattle.
The farmer will build a fence to protect the cattle from predators, because it is in the interest of the farmer to preserve the cattle. But come payday, the farmer will gladly butcher the cattle for profit.
Social media users in the you-are-the-product buisness model are no different. Your user experience will be catered to you to cultivate the user base. But your experience will be actively ruined the instant it benefits the paying customer, I.e. if that means the paying customer, advertisers, will get what they want (promotion).
The difference is people generally don’t care about a change if it doesn’t inconvenience them beyond their tolerance threshold. Losing access to 3rd party apps? Bad to some, but probably the profit of the move will exceed the cost. (their hope) But get a rep for ratting out your posters to authorities and it suddenly becomes very personal for more people.
The film companies have singled out a Reddit user, “xBROKEx,” citing a 12-year-old comment admitting to pirating the movie The Expendables.
Reddit counters that this attempted breach of privacy is unwarranted, given that the statute of limitations for copyright infringement is just three years.
How ridiculous. Someone admitted / bragged / bullshitted on the Internet 12 years ago. The statute of limitations expired 9 years ago. But, the film companies are still trying to get the information on a poor xBROKEx.
even knowing it will be thrown out, the companies want to go after them. they want to hurt xBROKEx as much as they can, as an example to others that you’ll never get away with it. That they’ll hound you decades later.
What a ridiculous case. You can’t prove anything based on a comment made online. Defence will just be “i just said that to sound cool, I’ve never pirated anything and wouldn’t know how” probably doesn’t even need a lawyer as there’s no evidence.
Oh fuck that. If those type of words are spoken in court you better have a lawyer or it’s going to be twisted against you with some sort of proof that you do in fact know how to pirate stuff. Straight to jail.
Yup. They will use the fact that a user said they pirated a movie as a starting point. If Reddit capitulated and handed over the user info that could be used to hunt for more evidence and possibly connect them to other pirates. It would open a juicy can of worms for these bottom feeders. Good on Reddit for standing up for their users.
Could the selection be intentional? A silly unenforceable case to open the door for a more comprehensive invasion of privacy on platforms to make discussion and hosting discussion of piracy into a riskier endeavor?
This is what I’m thinking. This is just a case of them seeing how far they can take it. Once precedent is set they can start to litigate based on a user merely mentioning that they pirated a movie.
You don’t need to feel guilty, copying onto your own blank media is why we all have to pay a levy on all blank media, even when they’re not being used for copying videos. That backup of your own stuff (family photos etc) you want to do? Pay the RIAA-tax.
Back in the early days you wanna download a movie or some warez it would be like 358 parts and you would always miss some and have to ask for reposts. Hey anyone have parts 28, 34, 78, and 212-229 of “Dizzy Princess And the Shaven Dwarves?” Then you wait a day or two, watching replies. It was really an accomplishment when you get that final piece and decode the file(s) successfully.
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I confess. I was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll.
☝️this guy right here, personal FBI agent! He basically admitted to pirating the JFK movie with Kevin Costner!! 💀
I logged your IP: 127.0.0.1 - police are on their way
No, no, it’s 198.162.0.1!
The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation is a hotbed of illegal activity.
(spider man pointing at themselves)
Bravo!
Maybe I’m missing context, but the article doesn’t mention what this admission looked like. Was it just a use saying “yeah I downloaded the new ghostbusters movie, it sucked glad I didn’t pay for it”, or was it someone admitting to camming/distributing/facilitating piracy at a base level? Surely they are not going after someone for just casually mentioning they pirated a movie?
You’re talking about the people that sued a single mother for millions because she uploaded a video of her child with a Beyonce song faintly in the background. These people are psychopaths.
Yeah it’s not that I think they’re above this kind of petty bullshit, but I don’t get why they’d go “fuck this guy in particular”.
That said, even if the guy admitted to running the world’s biggest pirate ring, screw them anyway
Friendly reminder that piracy is not theft
Well, digital piracy.
But ye olde Black Beard and the modern Somalian type is very much theft.
That also typically includes murder, abduction, rape and general violence…
Nah. Haven’t you heard about how the lack of pirates is causing climate change? /s
ive pirated 99.99% of the movies ive seen come find me xD
Wait, is it even possible to pay for movies outside of a movie theater?? I have taught everyone I know how to use bittorrent because I assumed that was a basic computer literacy thing. My grandma regularly pirates TV shows so they have something to watch at her adult daycare. That old bitch even offers DVD copies for a buck fifty.
You buy the DVDs.
Nothing disgusts me more than seeing a dvd for $40.
Rent a dvd Rip it Return the dvd
Library. They have thousands of them.
Those things are just plastic disks, they don’t even have data on them after this much abuse.
That has not been my experience. Honestly they are much better than the Netflix DVDs I used to get. We have a pretty damn great library here though.
Hope you also taught them to use a VPN.
Okay, I see this so much, but I have been
pirating virtually all of my mediadownloading Linux ISOs (in the US) without a VPN for… 20 years?I’ve gotten about a dozen letters from my ISP and I just chuck ‘‘em in a bin.
Haha, I used to do this (throw away the letters). Then one day my ISP shut off my internet for 24 hours (Verizon FIOS), so I got a VPN.
Yeah, if they’re going to twist my arm, that’s one thing haha. Surprised that your ISP actually took action.
I still can’t figure out why ISPs are even doing this. They have no financial reason to stop piracy from happening.
I’ve always thought it had something to do with absolving themselves if liability.
From what I understand, companies hired by copyright owners send a DMCA request to whichever ISP owns the IP addresses that show up in their honeypots.
ISP has to act on those requests in some way, so they send a sternly worded letter that basically says “we have been notified that your network was used to download copyrighted material illegally. Piracy is bad, you naughty boy/girl. If this continues, we may have to take action which could include canceling your service (don’t worry we won’t because we want your money)”.
Hypothetically, they could turn your information over to the digital rights company, who then could hypothetically file charges against you, but there is established judicial precedent in the US that says that showing that activity came from a specific IP address isn’t enough to convict an individual of a crime without more evidence. Could have been anyone in the household, or it could have been someone who hacked into the network and used it for piracy.
If we want to get even more hypothetical, they could try to convince a judge to issue a search warrant, seize your device, and look for evidence there, which could be used to convict you. But that is an insane amount of effort to go after one of the hundreds of thousands of people who downloaded
an episode of game of thronesan Ubuntu ISO.They do pull out all of those stops going after the original uploaded, though, but if that’s you you’re using way more than a VPN.
@jemorgan @mechoman444
I have had my service turned off for 24 hours once and that’s why I finally started using a VPN, as that was just annoying.
Yes. They turn my internet off until I call them and someone over the phone scolds me for wanted to watch The Flash.
Depending on the ISP your service can be terminated for pirating. VPNs are cheap enough where you might as well just use one
Okay, so I kind of lied, when I set up my radarr/sonarr/transmission/etc docked compose setup earlier this year, I did purchase PIA VPN, which is like $60 per year I believe. Didn’t want to have to think about it anymore, and I can afford it now, so whatever.
But still, over 20 years, that’s like a $1200 savings. When all that you’re realistically risking is having to switch ISPs, and that’s so unlikely that I’ve never met anyone who had to do it, I don’t think it’s as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Having said that, don’t pirate things without a VPN and blame me when the fuzz comes for ya
@jemorgan @manapropos
Before using a VPN, I was sent numerous letters from my isp to knock it off. It really depends on both isp and where you live. If you live in the US, my understanding is that it’s the isp who can get sued for allowing you to pirate, so while they don’t want to lose your money and will give you numerous chances, they will eventually cease to do business with you.
What’s a cheap good VPN for someone in the US?
I’m using surfshark, I got it a 3 year subscription on a discount a while back. On reddit they had r/vpndeals if I remember right, that was a good source to find discounts. Not sure if there’s a similar community here on Lemmy
Mullvad’s fast and $5, but it’s hosted in Sweden. Can’t have everything I guess
Yep, I’ve pirated so much that my whole crew all refer to me as Captain Jack Sparrow. My MO is to fire a warning shot over the bow of every movie studio and if they don’t quickly capitulate, I’ll raise the Jolly Roger and take them by force. That’s the only true pirate’s modus operandi.
Oh yeah? Well one time I downloaded a car.
He would, in fact, download a car.
I’m sure there’s one swimming somewhere in the dark
seanet.Damn, all I ever managed was to download some extra RAM.
Oh yeah? You got nothing on the studios… They are planning on downloading actors and actresses
People have been doing that for years :)
Book em Lou!
Take 'im away, toys.
The only party that wins is the law firm charging as many billable hours as possible.
Let us sail the high seas togetherrrrr~
They think that bullying one user is going to setup an example of what happens when you fuck with them.
Fuck 'em.
IIRC they aren’t prosecuting these users, instead they want to make them be witnesses in a case against an ISP they want to say wasn’t doing enough to stop piracy. The Reddit posts were about whether the ISP takes action against pirates or something like that.
Oh in that case I admit to pirating hundreds of movies while connected to the wifi on holiday at Disney Land. I’m happy to be a witness in a case if one of these scum bags wish to take on The Mouse.
What if it was Disney movies lol
Disney owns so many media companies, for any given movie pirate it’s likely it was Disney content.
I don’t think ISP’s have any duty to prevent piracy, or anything else for that matter. Their business is providing internet to their customers, not policing each and every action
If you use encryption (I always change the settings from “prefer” to “require” encryption on every install), the ISPs literally can’t identify what you’re downloading.
So the IP enforcement companies send the ISP a letter saying “this IP was illegally downloading our stuff. We don’t actually have proof, but trust us and punish them.”
Big surprise, a ton of ISPs just ignore them.
Edit: to be clear, I’m only saying encryption prevents your ISP from seeing what you’re downloading. IP (intellectual property) enforcers who participate in the torrent are the ones who inform your ISP, but their letters to the ISPs have no teeth. Some ISPs care, but a lot just ignore the letters. You still definitely want to use a VPN for all public trackers.
I don’t think that’s true. I’m pretty certain they simply hop on a torrent client with an illegal torrent for their movie and record the IP addresses they see seeding and leeching. Then simply compel the responsible ISP to reveal which of their customers currently has that IP leased.
That is exactly what happens. Encryption on the protocol doesn’t do anything but hide what you’re downloading from your ISP. It doesn’t prevent someone from downloading the same torrent and matching your IP to it. That’s why people recommend that you use VPNs if you’re going to do this from your house.
That’s what I said though.
Your ISP can’t see what you’re downloading if you encrypt, but the IP (intellectual property) enforcers still can if they’re participating in the torrent. Then they find out which ISP that IP (address) belongs to and sends them a letter saying “we caught your subscriber downloading XYZ illegally.”
However, at least one US district court has ruled that just catching an IP address downloading a torrent illegally isn’t proof that any particular person illegally downloaded the IP (intellectual property). As a result, some ISPs simply ignore the letters the IP enforcers send, while some of the bigger ones count “strikes” against the subscriber with that IP address.
That sounds even worse. You killed two flies in a shot. Did he cooperated in the case?
Statute of limitations much?
Shit, I wonder how long until they come for me too? I’ve pirated hundreds of movies.
Sir, we will give you two options, pay our fine or we tell everyone at your workplace that you pirated Happy Feet 2.
you gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers in this racket
IM TRYING!
I’m sure you meant to add “in minecraft” right?
I’m currently seeding quite a few… Let’s see what they can do
Hundreds lol what is a it the junior league?
Reddit understands it’s value is in content to sell. If reddit starts ratting out it’s free content creators, they lose value. Their actions are a profit calculation, not some noble stand to protect privacy.
It’s one and the same.
You’d think they’d have considered that these past few months in relation to, …other user concerns.
Based on zero data and just my impression, it seems like only a minority of us were actually willing to leave over it. They might make more money money from addicts using the ad app or buying gold than they lose from reduced content creation.
You are the product, not the paying customer. That means you are cattle.
The farmer will build a fence to protect the cattle from predators, because it is in the interest of the farmer to preserve the cattle. But come payday, the farmer will gladly butcher the cattle for profit.
Social media users in the you-are-the-product buisness model are no different. Your user experience will be catered to you to cultivate the user base. But your experience will be actively ruined the instant it benefits the paying customer, I.e. if that means the paying customer, advertisers, will get what they want (promotion).
The difference is people generally don’t care about a change if it doesn’t inconvenience them beyond their tolerance threshold. Losing access to 3rd party apps? Bad to some, but probably the profit of the move will exceed the cost. (their hope) But get a rep for ratting out your posters to authorities and it suddenly becomes very personal for more people.
They said the quiet part out loud during the API fiasco. They are planning on selling the data to AI companies, it’s why old.reddit has to die.
Calling it all now (although in fairness it’s basically already public information, even if everyone doesn’t seem to believe it).
What do they even have to gain from this? Going after small fry individuals worked out so well for their image in the early 2000s.
I think the Western IP holders saw what Sony was doing, and had dollar signs in their eyes
I don’t think they care about their image. How many people decided to not see Avengers: End Game because the studios are greedy
How are they gonna prove he really did and he’s not just bluffing?
Simple: Lie, cheat, steal, and the mafia.
How ridiculous. Someone admitted / bragged / bullshitted on the Internet 12 years ago. The statute of limitations expired 9 years ago. But, the film companies are still trying to get the information on a poor xBROKEx.
even knowing it will be thrown out, the companies want to go after them. they want to hurt xBROKEx as much as they can, as an example to others that you’ll never get away with it. That they’ll hound you decades later.
Yeah, that’s the thing. Even though xBROKEx would probably win in court, it would bankrupt them in lawyer fees.
What a ridiculous case. You can’t prove anything based on a comment made online. Defence will just be “i just said that to sound cool, I’ve never pirated anything and wouldn’t know how” probably doesn’t even need a lawyer as there’s no evidence.
Oh fuck that. If those type of words are spoken in court you better have a lawyer or it’s going to be twisted against you with some sort of proof that you do in fact know how to pirate stuff. Straight to jail.
Yup. They will use the fact that a user said they pirated a movie as a starting point. If Reddit capitulated and handed over the user info that could be used to hunt for more evidence and possibly connect them to other pirates. It would open a juicy can of worms for these bottom feeders. Good on Reddit for standing up for their users.
“Good on reddit for standing up for their users” I mean, you can’t abuse them for cash if they’re in jail.
But what for? His guilt expired years ago.
Could the selection be intentional? A silly unenforceable case to open the door for a more comprehensive invasion of privacy on platforms to make discussion and hosting discussion of piracy into a riskier endeavor?
This is what I’m thinking. This is just a case of them seeing how far they can take it. Once precedent is set they can start to litigate based on a user merely mentioning that they pirated a movie.
Could be that they’re seeking exhaustion so that can push more of their privacy breaking bullshit in international trade agreements.
Exactly what the trick is. Once the precedent is set, they can exploit the hell out of it.
These comments are why I love this community.
Admit to downloading a car and you on a list forever.
This is fucking pathetic.
I, too, downloaded movies 12 years ago. Fuckin losers. I also used Napster, come at me.
You’ll get the chair for Napster.
Zapster amirite
Shhhhhhh bro facebooks watching come on bro don’t be like that
I’ve been pirating my whole life!
How can I pirate your life as well?
I, too, choose this user’s life.
FBI!!! OPEN UP!!!
I did the most egregious thing back in the day and rented DVDs from the video store, ripped them, then returned them.
removed by mod
I am wracked with guilt every day.
Just don’t look at the server over there pulling half a TB of new 4k rips from usenet at a gig a second…
You don’t need to feel guilty, copying onto your own blank media is why we all have to pay a levy on all blank media, even when they’re not being used for copying videos. That backup of your own stuff (family photos etc) you want to do? Pay the RIAA-tax.
Every time it amazes me that noone give a fuck about usenet since before the internet existed 😂
Back in the early days you wanna download a movie or some warez it would be like 358 parts and you would always miss some and have to ask for reposts. Hey anyone have parts 28, 34, 78, and 212-229 of “Dizzy Princess And the Shaven Dwarves?” Then you wait a day or two, watching replies. It was really an accomplishment when you get that final piece and decode the file(s) successfully.
I don’t even really understand how usenet works tbh let alone finding a place for 4k rips.
Netflix dvds in the mail, 3 dvds at a time…practically daily ripping.
I used to do the same with CD’s from the local library… and then seed them
Instructions unclear. *cums