I guess it’s self explanatory but I keep seeing all this stuff about how everyone is moving from Reddit to lemmy and I’m wondering if anyone knows if that’s really what’s happening. If you have numbers that’s even better.
Not a mass exodus. Call it a brain drain, if you will. The churn includes those who posted or were moderators. Since those who stayed are directly or indirectly supporting practices that most of us find unacceptable, Reddit will probably forever have that sour taste. It will gradually turn into a pale reminder of what it once was, and it will lose its spark.
The sheer volume, quality, and length of posts in the Fediverse is indicative of new user profiles. I am so glad I took the plunge!
Not a mass exodus. Call it a brain drain, if you will. The churn includes those who posted or were moderators.
That’s key, it’s quality over quantity. Those who put a lot into Reddit were also going to be those disproportionately hit by the API changes. Enough of them make the jump and it degrades the quality of Reddit and his a big effect on Lemmy and the alternatives. By the next time Reddit messes up, and they will, the next batch of escapees will find a much more fleshed out set of alternatives, which will make leaving there and staying here easier. Rinse, wash and repeat.
We’ll never get the absolute numbers Reddit has but that’s the kind of aim of a corporate entity that wants to grab as many eyeballs as possible so they can mine the data and serve ads. That’s not what the Fediverse is about. All it really needs is the critical mass of people to make it viable and I think we’re already there.
By the next time Reddit messes up, and they will, the next batch of escapees will find a much more fleshed out set of alternatives, which will make leaving there and staying here easier. Rinse, wash and repeat.
I don’t think that even matters from a business point of view. Even if people aren’t leaving, the problem is that Reddit is not a place new people see as valuable after all the bad press. If they don’t grow, they fail.
If even 1% of the people leave Reddit for lemmy it will be a win and probably enough for it to grow organically in the coming months. If even 10% had come over, lemmy would have probably buckled under 10s of millions of users all at once and the experience would have been awesome with like 3% uptime.
I seriously doubt reddit has seen any significant drop in traffic or unique visitors. Looking back at some of the subs I frequented, they’re all business as usual. The mods all backed down the second that they had their mod status threatened, as expected. Almost all of the users I saw that said they were leaving on July 1 when their 3rd party app stopped working are still there.
I deleted my account and moved here, as clearly a lot of people did, but it’s a drop in the ocean and that’s not even to say that the people that moved here have stopped using reddit.
I can say that since Joey shut down my reddit use has dropped 95% at least. I hardly looked at reddit on the computer unless I was searching for an answer to something. I tried the reddit app, it runs like ass on my phone so I’m pretty much done spending time on that site unless I’ve googled something and the answer is in a reddit thread.
I consider it a win nontheless, people like me or you, who were actively engaged on reddit and did “what felt right” (deleting comments and leaving reddit) are probably the kind of people that might make for good conversation and good content (be it links to cool stuff, art, or just rants).
We might get some “bad apples” (trolls, botters, and such), but all in all, I see it as a far healthier alternative to grow gradually from a core of users that was either here from the start, or that moved to the Fediverse to take back a bit of the “old web” feel, where people come together to share cool stuff and ideas.
RIP Aaron Swartz, we’ll keep the old reddit spirit here on Lemmy.
I used RedReader which got an exemption, so it still works. So I still use it because I enjoy talking to people on Reddit despite the bad behaviour from the admins, and they don’t make any money off me so who cares. The day I’ll leave is the day they force me to use their unusable app (and when your non-tech buddy tells you he uses Reddit in desktop mode on mobile Firefox, you know it’s bad)
I’ve been using both services as there’s way more news and discussion on Reddit but Lemmy is improving rapidly. I do think Reddit has shot themselves in the foot by restricting NSFW subs to logged in / official app only though. I honestly expected this would result in a ton of content moving to Lemmy but that doesn’t seem to have been the case so far.
I think Lemmy’s biggest issue is community discovery on federated instances. Lots of active communities don’t show up unless explicitly requested on your own instance, and that’s going to confuse a lot of new users.
People have become more open to “testing the waters” of other apps. Sure they are still using Reddit and Twitter etc… but many have also started playing with lemmy, mastodon etc… I have no idea where this will end up but there is a shift of willingness to try something else and that is good start.
Doesn’t matter if it’s a mass exodus. If we want to use that word: It’s not like all of Egypt left Egypt because of the Pharaoh…this is still a good place to be in. Away from the pettiness I see in the main media.
The total number of users across all Lemmy instances is about half a million, from memory? There was a post about it not so long ago. A quick google’s search shows Reddit has 55 million daily active users.
It’s definitely a drop in the bucket, though I wonder what the Creator/Contributor/Lurker percentages are on Reddit vs Lemmy (1%/9%/90% is the normal percentages I see related to those groups). If we assume a larger number of Creators and Contributors left Reddit (presumably for Lemmy), then even though Lemmy has less total users, it may have a higher amount of actual content creators and contributors. Though what that actually translates into over time is questionable.
I wouldn’t call it a mass exodus, it’s more like a slow and gradual exodus that has started and will keep on happening as Reddit will continue to burn itself down
Same, after more than a decade I kinda floated in limbo for a bit after Reddit is Fun was killed, but finally decided to just make the leap to Lemmy. No idea if it’s going to be the place that replaces Reddit, seems a little too messy, but I’m tired of every social media becoming trash after everyone gets comfortable using it and they start start trying to squeeze more money out of everything.
Given how Reddit had managed to hit the sweet spot of a company that doesn’t pay for its content, doesn’t pay for its self-regulating communities, and has hundreds of millions of users whose data it sells, it’s honestly shocking that they managed to mess things up so much.
There has been a mass exodus, in the sense that a mass of people have exited the site and moved elsewhere in a very short period of time. There has not been one, in the sense that the majority of users have left the site.
I get that the people most affected by changes may want to feel like literally everyone and their dog pulled up stakes to follow them. That they’d want that sense of solidarity, and the feeling that they’re giving a proper “Fuck you” to the people that ruined their good time. And I get that people who are just exploring new spaces want to feel like they’re choosing the “winning” side.
But that isn’t the way these things work.
Habits are sticky. Familiar spaces are sticky. Most people do not like change, and will coats to momentum for as long as that momentum exists. They’re not going to migrate until Reddit is completely crumbling.
And maybe we don’t want them to.
This space is not ready for 50 million people. The moderation tools aren’t there yet. The infrastructure to keep them from just jumping on a single server isn’t there yet. The tools and documentation to help people easily set up new instances are still new and being stress tested.
The goal of killing a billion dollar company, or three of them even, isn’t within reach. That’s not a thing that happens overnight. But this is the ground work for taking on that task.
The first thing people need before they can even consider leaving is a viable alternative, and that’s what we’re making here by being active, and interesting.
It’s a small but very specific, active minority of the total reddit pie. This is why Reddit won’t go away. They have enough of a core audience that doesn’t care about how bad the official app or web page may be. It’s just good enough for them, which is all they need to scratch their reddit itch.
Seeing growth across a few Lemmy instances over the past few weeks has been fun.
They basically trimmed the fat. Those who they weren’t monetizing are no longer using as many resources for free. They force people to use their system so they can show them ads.
What’s also fun is the few times I’ve been back to reddit to look at something. Each time I ended up seeing people in the comments with just terrible attitudes. And I thought to myself, “I’m weirdly glad reddit is still around because it gives people like you a place to congregate that I can avoid.”
I doubt a “mass exodus”, most people probably stayed and it will take time before there’s a mass exodus from the platform. As apparent as it is to many of us that Reddit has gone to shit, for the vast majority of users, they just saw it as another meme-able moment, just another one of those reddit dramas that flares up and dies down eventually in time fort he next trend to hit.
For them though, maybe it’s died down already and it’s back to business as usual, maybe not, but the casual users aren’t going to see the true effects for some time I think. As a lack of moderation, a lack of content, an increase in bots, spam, and extremism start to take hold on the platform, users will start to realize that something is not quite right, it’s not the same reddit it used to be. They’ll start to get an inkling of what we’ve already seen and maybe at that point they’ll start branching out to Lemmy or some other platform. This may cause Reddit, the company, to start acting out in desperation to try to keep users from leaving and/or protect its potential profits, which may in turn cause a feedback loop wherein more users leave and Reddit gets stupider and stupider (similar to what we’re currently seeing with Twitter). It’ll be awhile before there’s a true mass exodus from the site.
There clearly is not. Even people on here, who say they “quit” Reddit, often go on to say “I only go on it now for this one subreddit” or “I only go on it to check news” etc. Spez bet that people would either not care about him shitting all over the Reddit community for profit, or be too addicted to Reddit to actually do anything about it. And he was right.
These predictions that Reddit will collapse because the “power users” have left are ridiculous. It’s not difficult to find recycled trash on the internet to shitpost on Reddit. Hell, bots can do it, and have been. People just want garbage to mindlessly scroll through and leave their dumb comments on (“user name checks out, har har”).
I will personally never use Reddit as long as it’s run my Spez (or any other equivalent asshole), but it’s quite clear that they’ve survived this API debacle just fine.
Cutting back your engagement from 30h a week to 30m is a huge shot against Reddit tho.
I kept my account alive but now only follow a handful of subs and am finding alternatives weekly. Discord. Lemmy.
This all results in a huge loss for Reddit because no one’s there for the ads or promoted posts. And that’s all they’ll have left after a while. And that’s not enough to attract a real base. Reddit won’t die overnight but look at what one fatal move did to Tumblr (when they banned porn). It tanked the site so hard that it’s losing money daily now. A stark contrast from when it sold for billions.
Corporations are far too flippant in thinking they are indestructible. And how they handled the API changes tells you that, like Tumblr, they made a serious mistake.
It’s the same with Facebook. People are so addicted to it that no matter how badly they are treated they just can’t quit. No matter the evidence repeatedly presented with just how evil FB is, I have still never convinced a family member to get off it. At this point I just will have to be satisfied with them never referencing me or having any pictures of me on it. Reddit is the same, but not as extreme.
It’s the same with Facebook. People are so addicted to it that no matter how badly they are treated they just can’t quit.
Facebook is a very different beast. It exists and thrives because it convinced people to engage personally. It’s difficult to leave Facebook because family and friends are there. And Facebook also bought a lot of the competition and branched out: Instagram, WhatsApp, etc. It also has value to businesses, it has a market place, it truly is a monster.
Reddit has nothing. It doesn’t know its users and most of them are really careful to keep anonymous. It has shared interests communities, but not friendships/personal relationships. It’s really easy to quit Reddit if one decides to. It does not affect daily life.
True. But, the power users leaving will likely have a long term impact.
The thing that set Reddit apart from all the other spaces to settle down on the internet was that Reddit’s users made it work, not Reddit.
They had their faults; moderation wasn’t perfect. But, it was good in the places it needed to be. Reddit was also very good at attracting “experts” in niche topics. You could reliably trust askscience, askhistorians, whatisthisbug, etc.
Reddit has plenty of memes, porn and funny cats to attract the masses, but it was the power users that made Reddit what it was.
On top of that, Reddit was so customizable because of all the 3rd party apps that had polish. Apollo, BaconReader, etc., no ads and lots of options to choose from to suit your needs.
Good points, I guess time will tell if enough people with enough significance left (or will leave). I just don’t think so, unfortunately. But hopefully.
Yes, there’s been a mass exodus, but while that term sounds like it means most reddit users have left, it just means a large group of them did. Certainly not most or all.
It’s happening in waves. Evey time a big change happens, a group of users see that as the last straw and leave. This killing of second-party apps was my the last straw for me, while most users probably don’t care enough to do that.
For me as well. Third party app was the reason that made the use enjoyable. I’m curious how it will be when sync for lemmy is online. I think Mastodon and Lemmy will both grow, but it is organic growth so it will likely take years. Anyway I already like the community more here.
True. And while the comment section still gets several thousand participating, it’ll keep people’s attention.
One thing I miss is reading a comment section for over sn hour because it was almost endless entertainment. Hopefully Lemmy can provide some of that golden content.
No and no, it’s just hype IMO. But the trickle of new users seems sufficient to make Lemmy a more interesting place to be and a more viable platform long term. That’s already quite good if you ask me.
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Not a mass exodus. Call it a brain drain, if you will. The churn includes those who posted or were moderators. Since those who stayed are directly or indirectly supporting practices that most of us find unacceptable, Reddit will probably forever have that sour taste. It will gradually turn into a pale reminder of what it once was, and it will lose its spark. The sheer volume, quality, and length of posts in the Fediverse is indicative of new user profiles. I am so glad I took the plunge!
Much better choice of words - and as the intelligent conversation and content creation shifts services, eventually there will be a tipping point.
That’s key, it’s quality over quantity. Those who put a lot into Reddit were also going to be those disproportionately hit by the API changes. Enough of them make the jump and it degrades the quality of Reddit and his a big effect on Lemmy and the alternatives. By the next time Reddit messes up, and they will, the next batch of escapees will find a much more fleshed out set of alternatives, which will make leaving there and staying here easier. Rinse, wash and repeat.
We’ll never get the absolute numbers Reddit has but that’s the kind of aim of a corporate entity that wants to grab as many eyeballs as possible so they can mine the data and serve ads. That’s not what the Fediverse is about. All it really needs is the critical mass of people to make it viable and I think we’re already there.
I don’t think that even matters from a business point of view. Even if people aren’t leaving, the problem is that Reddit is not a place new people see as valuable after all the bad press. If they don’t grow, they fail.
If even 1% of the people leave Reddit for lemmy it will be a win and probably enough for it to grow organically in the coming months. If even 10% had come over, lemmy would have probably buckled under 10s of millions of users all at once and the experience would have been awesome with like 3% uptime.
I seriously doubt reddit has seen any significant drop in traffic or unique visitors. Looking back at some of the subs I frequented, they’re all business as usual. The mods all backed down the second that they had their mod status threatened, as expected. Almost all of the users I saw that said they were leaving on July 1 when their 3rd party app stopped working are still there.
I deleted my account and moved here, as clearly a lot of people did, but it’s a drop in the ocean and that’s not even to say that the people that moved here have stopped using reddit.
I said I was gonna delete my account and some jackasses summoned RemindMe bot to keep me honest lol.
But I deleted both my active accounts because I’m a person of my word.
I can say that since Joey shut down my reddit use has dropped 95% at least. I hardly looked at reddit on the computer unless I was searching for an answer to something. I tried the reddit app, it runs like ass on my phone so I’m pretty much done spending time on that site unless I’ve googled something and the answer is in a reddit thread.
I consider it a win nontheless, people like me or you, who were actively engaged on reddit and did “what felt right” (deleting comments and leaving reddit) are probably the kind of people that might make for good conversation and good content (be it links to cool stuff, art, or just rants).
We might get some “bad apples” (trolls, botters, and such), but all in all, I see it as a far healthier alternative to grow gradually from a core of users that was either here from the start, or that moved to the Fediverse to take back a bit of the “old web” feel, where people come together to share cool stuff and ideas.
RIP Aaron Swartz, we’ll keep the old reddit spirit here on Lemmy.
I used RedReader which got an exemption, so it still works. So I still use it because I enjoy talking to people on Reddit despite the bad behaviour from the admins, and they don’t make any money off me so who cares. The day I’ll leave is the day they force me to use their unusable app (and when your non-tech buddy tells you he uses Reddit in desktop mode on mobile Firefox, you know it’s bad)
I’ve been using both services as there’s way more news and discussion on Reddit but Lemmy is improving rapidly. I do think Reddit has shot themselves in the foot by restricting NSFW subs to logged in / official app only though. I honestly expected this would result in a ton of content moving to Lemmy but that doesn’t seem to have been the case so far.
I think Lemmy’s biggest issue is community discovery on federated instances. Lots of active communities don’t show up unless explicitly requested on your own instance, and that’s going to confuse a lot of new users.
People have become more open to “testing the waters” of other apps. Sure they are still using Reddit and Twitter etc… but many have also started playing with lemmy, mastodon etc… I have no idea where this will end up but there is a shift of willingness to try something else and that is good start.
Doesn’t matter if it’s a mass exodus. If we want to use that word: It’s not like all of Egypt left Egypt because of the Pharaoh…this is still a good place to be in. Away from the pettiness I see in the main media.
The total number of users across all Lemmy instances is about half a million, from memory? There was a post about it not so long ago. A quick google’s search shows Reddit has 55 million daily active users.
It’s fuck all, at least for now.
It’s definitely a drop in the bucket, though I wonder what the Creator/Contributor/Lurker percentages are on Reddit vs Lemmy (1%/9%/90% is the normal percentages I see related to those groups). If we assume a larger number of Creators and Contributors left Reddit (presumably for Lemmy), then even though Lemmy has less total users, it may have a higher amount of actual content creators and contributors. Though what that actually translates into over time is questionable.
That’s definitely a good point, although I suspect a lot of content creators will do posting their work in multiple places.
The raw numbers are sweet FA though.
I wouldn’t call it a mass exodus, it’s more like a slow and gradual exodus that has started and will keep on happening as Reddit will continue to burn itself down
I’m not catholic so technically
After 10 years on Reddit I’ve made the jump to Lemmy. There’s the odd Reddit link I click on when doing a Google search
Same, after more than a decade I kinda floated in limbo for a bit after Reddit is Fun was killed, but finally decided to just make the leap to Lemmy. No idea if it’s going to be the place that replaces Reddit, seems a little too messy, but I’m tired of every social media becoming trash after everyone gets comfortable using it and they start start trying to squeeze more money out of everything. Given how Reddit had managed to hit the sweet spot of a company that doesn’t pay for its content, doesn’t pay for its self-regulating communities, and has hundreds of millions of users whose data it sells, it’s honestly shocking that they managed to mess things up so much.
It depends on what you mean by “mass exodus”.
There has been a mass exodus, in the sense that a mass of people have exited the site and moved elsewhere in a very short period of time. There has not been one, in the sense that the majority of users have left the site.
I get that the people most affected by changes may want to feel like literally everyone and their dog pulled up stakes to follow them. That they’d want that sense of solidarity, and the feeling that they’re giving a proper “Fuck you” to the people that ruined their good time. And I get that people who are just exploring new spaces want to feel like they’re choosing the “winning” side.
But that isn’t the way these things work.
Habits are sticky. Familiar spaces are sticky. Most people do not like change, and will coats to momentum for as long as that momentum exists. They’re not going to migrate until Reddit is completely crumbling.
And maybe we don’t want them to.
This space is not ready for 50 million people. The moderation tools aren’t there yet. The infrastructure to keep them from just jumping on a single server isn’t there yet. The tools and documentation to help people easily set up new instances are still new and being stress tested.
The goal of killing a billion dollar company, or three of them even, isn’t within reach. That’s not a thing that happens overnight. But this is the ground work for taking on that task.
The first thing people need before they can even consider leaving is a viable alternative, and that’s what we’re making here by being active, and interesting.
Well said, thank you.
It’s a small but very specific, active minority of the total reddit pie. This is why Reddit won’t go away. They have enough of a core audience that doesn’t care about how bad the official app or web page may be. It’s just good enough for them, which is all they need to scratch their reddit itch.
Seeing growth across a few Lemmy instances over the past few weeks has been fun.
They basically trimmed the fat. Those who they weren’t monetizing are no longer using as many resources for free. They force people to use their system so they can show them ads.
What’s also fun is the few times I’ve been back to reddit to look at something. Each time I ended up seeing people in the comments with just terrible attitudes. And I thought to myself, “I’m weirdly glad reddit is still around because it gives people like you a place to congregate that I can avoid.”
You have put into words the exact feeling I have been getting while looking at anything on Reddit recently.
Maybe the shift I’m seeing is purely confirmation bias, but it feels like the same thing I’ve seen with Twitter, but to a lesser degree so far
I’ve noticed reddit in general become more and more negative for years now. The majority of comments are complaining or taking a piss on something.
deleted by creator
I doubt a “mass exodus”, most people probably stayed and it will take time before there’s a mass exodus from the platform. As apparent as it is to many of us that Reddit has gone to shit, for the vast majority of users, they just saw it as another meme-able moment, just another one of those reddit dramas that flares up and dies down eventually in time fort he next trend to hit.
For them though, maybe it’s died down already and it’s back to business as usual, maybe not, but the casual users aren’t going to see the true effects for some time I think. As a lack of moderation, a lack of content, an increase in bots, spam, and extremism start to take hold on the platform, users will start to realize that something is not quite right, it’s not the same reddit it used to be. They’ll start to get an inkling of what we’ve already seen and maybe at that point they’ll start branching out to Lemmy or some other platform. This may cause Reddit, the company, to start acting out in desperation to try to keep users from leaving and/or protect its potential profits, which may in turn cause a feedback loop wherein more users leave and Reddit gets stupider and stupider (similar to what we’re currently seeing with Twitter). It’ll be awhile before there’s a true mass exodus from the site.
There clearly is not. Even people on here, who say they “quit” Reddit, often go on to say “I only go on it now for this one subreddit” or “I only go on it to check news” etc. Spez bet that people would either not care about him shitting all over the Reddit community for profit, or be too addicted to Reddit to actually do anything about it. And he was right.
These predictions that Reddit will collapse because the “power users” have left are ridiculous. It’s not difficult to find recycled trash on the internet to shitpost on Reddit. Hell, bots can do it, and have been. People just want garbage to mindlessly scroll through and leave their dumb comments on (“user name checks out, har har”).
I will personally never use Reddit as long as it’s run my Spez (or any other equivalent asshole), but it’s quite clear that they’ve survived this API debacle just fine.
Cutting back your engagement from 30h a week to 30m is a huge shot against Reddit tho.
I kept my account alive but now only follow a handful of subs and am finding alternatives weekly. Discord. Lemmy.
This all results in a huge loss for Reddit because no one’s there for the ads or promoted posts. And that’s all they’ll have left after a while. And that’s not enough to attract a real base. Reddit won’t die overnight but look at what one fatal move did to Tumblr (when they banned porn). It tanked the site so hard that it’s losing money daily now. A stark contrast from when it sold for billions.
Corporations are far too flippant in thinking they are indestructible. And how they handled the API changes tells you that, like Tumblr, they made a serious mistake.
It’s the same with Facebook. People are so addicted to it that no matter how badly they are treated they just can’t quit. No matter the evidence repeatedly presented with just how evil FB is, I have still never convinced a family member to get off it. At this point I just will have to be satisfied with them never referencing me or having any pictures of me on it. Reddit is the same, but not as extreme.
Facebook is a very different beast. It exists and thrives because it convinced people to engage personally. It’s difficult to leave Facebook because family and friends are there. And Facebook also bought a lot of the competition and branched out: Instagram, WhatsApp, etc. It also has value to businesses, it has a market place, it truly is a monster.
Reddit has nothing. It doesn’t know its users and most of them are really careful to keep anonymous. It has shared interests communities, but not friendships/personal relationships. It’s really easy to quit Reddit if one decides to. It does not affect daily life.
True. But, the power users leaving will likely have a long term impact.
The thing that set Reddit apart from all the other spaces to settle down on the internet was that Reddit’s users made it work, not Reddit.
They had their faults; moderation wasn’t perfect. But, it was good in the places it needed to be. Reddit was also very good at attracting “experts” in niche topics. You could reliably trust askscience, askhistorians, whatisthisbug, etc.
Reddit has plenty of memes, porn and funny cats to attract the masses, but it was the power users that made Reddit what it was.
On top of that, Reddit was so customizable because of all the 3rd party apps that had polish. Apollo, BaconReader, etc., no ads and lots of options to choose from to suit your needs.
Good points, I guess time will tell if enough people with enough significance left (or will leave). I just don’t think so, unfortunately. But hopefully.
Yes, there’s been a mass exodus, but while that term sounds like it means most reddit users have left, it just means a large group of them did. Certainly not most or all.
It’s happening in waves. Evey time a big change happens, a group of users see that as the last straw and leave. This killing of second-party apps was my the last straw for me, while most users probably don’t care enough to do that.
For me as well. Third party app was the reason that made the use enjoyable. I’m curious how it will be when sync for lemmy is online. I think Mastodon and Lemmy will both grow, but it is organic growth so it will likely take years. Anyway I already like the community more here.
True. And while the comment section still gets several thousand participating, it’ll keep people’s attention.
One thing I miss is reading a comment section for over sn hour because it was almost endless entertainment. Hopefully Lemmy can provide some of that golden content.
No and no, it’s just hype IMO. But the trickle of new users seems sufficient to make Lemmy a more interesting place to be and a more viable platform long term. That’s already quite good if you ask me.