I originally chose to make my account on lemmy.world since all the content seemed to come from there. But I’ve since learned that I can fill my feed with stuff from any instance so it feels like it doesn’t actually matter if I’m on lemmy.world or not. At the same time, Lemmy.world seems to be frequently under attack so I’m wondering if I should change instance but have no idea what I should even be looking for when choosing.
that all depends on the instance. small does not mean it will go away. for example my instance is topical. by design, even if it gets “popular” it has some in-built upper limits and if the mass grows beyond them it means I can likely get help paying for the next steps up.
just because an instance is big does not mean its necessarily safe or stable, first its imporant to note that large instances have scaling issues as the deployment for the system is not ready to scale that way, instead they need to deploy to every bigger servers in an inefficient manner or spend a ton of time rolling bespoke deploys. these big servers are just a few volunteers. some big instances are managed by 1-4 technical people, the same numbers a small instance has.
Also it costs money to run large scaled systems, you can run an instance for you and some friends for nearly free if you find a deal and only a few bucks a month if you dont.
So big instance/ small instance does not mean much with stability, they both have thier issues. Something to note, smaller instances are MUCH easier to run.
It feels like starting a new instance is the trendy thing to do, similar to creating some new crypto shitcoin a few years ago. Of course, nothing is guaranteed, but I would imagine more deeply rooted instances would generally offer more support and be less likely to disappear.
haha no, instances like this pre-date centralized systems, e-cash and everything else. instead of something hip and new, you are doing something very old, like they way the internet was designed to operate old.
i was running sites like these a decade before reddit came to the fore. The thing that’s “new and weird” is this desire to pile onto a single domain handing control of your feed, personal information and more to a billionaire. If you are into wealth gospel i get it, though they haven’t done as much to earn trust as people seem to think.
AOL and Compuserve went under for all the same reasons the majors are struggling now.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m onboard with these decentralized platforms. I’m not questioning the value of this federation system, but the potential volatility of parts of it. The concept of an '‘instance’ may be old, but that seems to be a new buzzword, fit for abuse.
it already has been abused, you came here a bit late and missed the fireworks, there was a massive expulsion of badly behaving instances by many of the instances wanting to remain connected. I was actually quite surprised and impressed at the speed at which admins collectively decided and acted across the network. I actually suspect the ratio of mods:users to be higher here. The ratio of admins:users def is.
Generally, yes, though technically it can happen to any instance with a small or single-person admin team. If an instance has multiple admins it is far less likely that it will one day just die.
I do feel like looking for a small instance is better from what I’ve read so far, but this is the first time I’ve heard control over my feed being different by instance, outside of instances defederating.
its more that with more existing users its more likely any particular community will have already been pulled into that instance by someone else already.
I run my own instance so there’s nothing on my all feed outside of communities I already sub to because there are no others on my instance.
As a reminder, instances only get content from a community when someone on that instance is subscribed to it ( so to get it in in the first place they’d search !community@instance then subscribe to it).
I chose sh.itjust.works but since then I’ve realized that it would be better to support instances that are local to me so I think I’ll move to an Australian instance.
Supporting local instances might help with regional growth
Go instance shopping. Yeah you’re creating accounts on instances you may not use, but creating an account for a test drive is acceptable I think. I tried five instances before I found one I liked. My runner up I use as a backup in case my primary goes down for some reason.
First I narrowed down candidates to those that are regionally close to me. You can sort instance location by going to https://the-federation.info/platform/73. Further down the page you’ll see a listing of all nodes (instances). You click on the location header to sort them by country.
Then you want to look at user numbers. Too big and the instance could have overload issues. Too small and the instance may not be well established and reliable. So medium on the user counts.
Then I did a “ping” on ones that looked good to see how they do on network response.
Once I found good candidates, I created an account on each and gave it a test drive. You can see who won for me.
I like the instance policy here on world mostly, it’s open to all, and that the admins are reasonable with the rules and are quick to respond to issues.
My instance was opened by the mod team of the Brazilian subreddit, they do a great job moderating the subreddit so I trusted them when they called us to move over here. Local experience is cool because is in Portuguese and Brazil centered, so I have a good contrast with All that is almost exclusively in English and European/US centric.
Then I hope the answers are enlightening to us both! Takeaways so far are just choose a smaller instance and see if you can find one that specializes in your specific interests. But making sure it’s an instance that will be well and reliably run is the part I can’t figure out yet.
I’m gonna take this back a bit cause my understanding of the All tab has changed significantly from people’s responses.
It seems choosing a larger instance is better for discovery, cause the All tab you see is just what people in your instance are subscribed to only, not all of the federated lemmy instances and communities. So I’m going to stick with a large instance for now (lemmy.world), then if I see a lot of content better fitting what I’m looking for on another instance, join that, or at least make an alt there.
Usually, it is correct, that the all feed would be smaller on a small instance, but “seeders”, like lcs or lemmony can make the feed in all tab much larger.
It does this by subscribing to a lot communites. Lcs does for specific communities and lemmony subscribes to everything. You can see an example of an all tab with many subscriptions(added via lemmony) at my instance
I think the easist way to check, if an instance uses one of these seeders is to check the number of subscriptions in the instance. Or just ask the admin for the instance.
A lot of people are talking about federation and access to admins. But what’s missing is defederation policy.
Lemmy is a federated network of instances. If you’re on InstanceA and you make a community on InstanceA, and I’m on InstanceB, I can connect to your community on InstanceA. UNLESS, there’s a defederation- either InstanceA or InstanceB manually block the other. This is something the admins of the instance do.
Different instances have different policies on when (if ever) they defederate. Beehaw for example defederated a number of instances, but that’s due to the experience Beehaw is trying to create- very inclusive and affirming and whatnot. That’s their choice, but it meant defederating some of the more popular public instances (including lemmy.world).
//edit: Another thing relates to creating communities. Any communities you create will ‘live’ on your instance, and thus be under your instance’s rules. Some instancess are friendly to questionable subjects like piracy and NSFW material, others are not. So even if you don’t today intend to create any communities, it’s good to be on an instancewhose rules align with your own preferences.
This could always change at the whim of an admin as well. It’s good to have admin “teams” and even foundations, but a lot of the time there’s one person making those decisions.
Users and communities could be more portable. Admins should get to decide what is on their instance for sure, but right now there’s kind of a “lock in.” Which give admins disproportional control / responsibility. IMO.
I seem to remember account migration being something that is planned to eventually be possible, but until then, more important issues take precedence (also, many code contributors leave big things like this to the main devs and contribute small improvements instead).
Tbf, beehaw plans to refederate with lemmy.world once either the moderation tools for lemmy get better or lemmy.world makes it harder for trolls to just make a new lemmy.world account when banned from beehaw.
True, but that brings up another point which I just edited into my parent comment- instance rules. Any communities you create will be hosted on your home instance and thus subject to your home instance’s rules. So you should make sure those rules align with the sort of activity you’ll want to be doing.
You could try here, it lists the uptime and geo location of plenty of fedi instances of all stripes. Take the uptimes with a grain of salt though, if they can’t reach an instance for whatever reason it gets marked down even if it was actually fine, so it can read a bit low sometimes.
There are still a lot of syncing problems in Lemmy some outside posts show late or never show in other instances.I’m not worried about Lemmy.world despite all the attacks and issues they got. I think small instances are more chance to die than lemmy.world. If an instance die all the communities on it dies that’s not something I want to see especially if you are a mod on an community
More “portable” and secure identities would have been a good feature. The client could have handled most of the crypto required for signing and validating content. As it stands now, the instance Admin has complete control over your identity. Portable communities would follow that easily.
Most of the syncing issues are actually between the large instances or instances that having performance issues.
Smaller instance is generally better. I’ve got a couple of seeder scripts automatically federating content in order to populate my All feed, which definitely helps the place feel less empty.
What does this mean, exactly. I’m still trying to figure this all out. I’m on kbin.social. I’m hearing all about Lemmy and fediverse. I see helpful pictures that people post of clouds with arrows, indicating that there are different servers, but I’m confused as fuck.
I can’t figure out if there are two version of /r/politics, if someone else could have my username, or if I can see everything on every server, or how do I control what I see?
If anyone reads this, which I don’t think anyone will, I am really looking for a Ukraine update page. That’s the thing that made me log into reddit every day.
Yes, there are multiple people that could have your username, and you can have multiple accounts with the same username. For example, this is my third TheSaneWriter account on this platform, my first was on the defunct instance VLemmy and my second is partially active on the instance lemm.ee. Same with /c/politics, there can be as many versions of that community as there are instances, though the largest will probably be on lemmy.ml and lemmy.world. Most Lemmy frontends have 3 feeds, Subscribed, Local, and All. Subscribed is only communities that you are subscribed to, you can subscribe to any community on any instance from any other instance as long as your instance hasn’t defederated from them. Local is all of the communities on your instance, All is all of the communities that anyone on your instance has subscribed to. You can also block communities from any instance that you would like. Here’s a fairly active Ukraine community, [email protected]. There are other ones out there, but this one is the most active. I found it here: https://lemmyverse.net/communities?query=ukraine. Lemmyverse can see any community on any instance that is public to the internet, so if you are ever looking for a community feel free to check there.
This is the best explanation of the difference between Subscribed, Local and All that I’ve run into so far. I thought I understood the All tab but apparently that was a huge misconception I had before asking this question.
This is super useful, thanks for sharing! This should be included in an orientation like “first time using Lemmy?” or something, though I have no idea how that would be organized.
I started on lemmy.ml, as I code a lot. I got a lemmy.world account when I found a lot of communities there I wanted to join and a lemmy.studio account for music communities. That was a few min before I learned how to subscribe cross-instance. (I couldn’t find the communities) I could clean up teh accounts, but nah, couldn’t think of a reason why.
Now lemmy.world is my main instance with lemmy.ml as 1st backup and lemmy.studio as special interest. (and I found a Dutch instance)
For me, if you are choosing a different
instances for your alt account, always have a look at the instance’s server location info and their blocked list, just in case
You’ll probably experience more performance issues if you choose larger instances. On the other hand, it’s harder to know how reliable and stable smaller instances are.
Yeah, since I’ve joined lemmy.world has been down quite a few times so I can see the problem of too many people jumping onto one instance. Just figuring out how to find out if a smaller instance is both reliable and stable as you say… Not sure what metrics I can look at or if such metrics exist
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
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I go to the ones that everyone else defederates. Means they have something important to say. I’m against all censorship.
Why is this garbage comment at the top, can I change my default comment sorting?
It depends on who is defederating from you. Extremists? You’re probably doing something right. Normal people? Maybe not so much.
Depends on your definition of “extremists” and “normal people”
smaller instances give you more control over your feed generally but discovery is on you.
i do expect better filters and controls in the future
Would a smaller instance not be more likely to have weaker support, or more prone to shutting down and taking you with it?
Mine is very prone to this because I’m running it myself and I’m a dumbass
I don’t know, man. I think you could run the fediverse if you put your mind to it.
So far I’ve managed to
They might have smaller supports, but they are much less likely to be targets of ddos attacks and bots.
that all depends on the instance. small does not mean it will go away. for example my instance is topical. by design, even if it gets “popular” it has some in-built upper limits and if the mass grows beyond them it means I can likely get help paying for the next steps up.
just because an instance is big does not mean its necessarily safe or stable, first its imporant to note that large instances have scaling issues as the deployment for the system is not ready to scale that way, instead they need to deploy to every bigger servers in an inefficient manner or spend a ton of time rolling bespoke deploys. these big servers are just a few volunteers. some big instances are managed by 1-4 technical people, the same numbers a small instance has.
Also it costs money to run large scaled systems, you can run an instance for you and some friends for nearly free if you find a deal and only a few bucks a month if you dont.
So big instance/ small instance does not mean much with stability, they both have thier issues. Something to note, smaller instances are MUCH easier to run.
It feels like starting a new instance is the trendy thing to do, similar to creating some new crypto shitcoin a few years ago. Of course, nothing is guaranteed, but I would imagine more deeply rooted instances would generally offer more support and be less likely to disappear.
haha no, instances like this pre-date centralized systems, e-cash and everything else. instead of something hip and new, you are doing something very old, like they way the internet was designed to operate old.
i was running sites like these a decade before reddit came to the fore. The thing that’s “new and weird” is this desire to pile onto a single domain handing control of your feed, personal information and more to a billionaire. If you are into wealth gospel i get it, though they haven’t done as much to earn trust as people seem to think.
AOL and Compuserve went under for all the same reasons the majors are struggling now.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m onboard with these decentralized platforms. I’m not questioning the value of this federation system, but the potential volatility of parts of it. The concept of an '‘instance’ may be old, but that seems to be a new buzzword, fit for abuse.
it already has been abused, you came here a bit late and missed the fireworks, there was a massive expulsion of badly behaving instances by many of the instances wanting to remain connected. I was actually quite surprised and impressed at the speed at which admins collectively decided and acted across the network. I actually suspect the ratio of mods:users to be higher here. The ratio of admins:users def is.
I’d rather rely on myself than someone else. I love my micro droplet instance. It feels nice knowing I am in control. [Somewhat].
Generally, yes, though technically it can happen to any instance with a small or single-person admin team. If an instance has multiple admins it is far less likely that it will one day just die.
I do feel like looking for a small instance is better from what I’ve read so far, but this is the first time I’ve heard control over my feed being different by instance, outside of instances defederating.
its more that with more existing users its more likely any particular community will have already been pulled into that instance by someone else already.
I run my own instance so there’s nothing on my all feed outside of communities I already sub to because there are no others on my instance.
As a reminder, instances only get content from a community when someone on that instance is subscribed to it ( so to get it in in the first place they’d search !community@instance then subscribe to it).
I chose sh.itjust.works but since then I’ve realized that it would be better to support instances that are local to me so I think I’ll move to an Australian instance. Supporting local instances might help with regional growth
Do you have some links to Australian instances?
https://aussie.zone/
This is the one I’m thinking of switching to
Control is maybe the wrong term.
If you choose an instance that vaguely aligns with your interests then your local feed will be more interesting.
Go instance shopping. Yeah you’re creating accounts on instances you may not use, but creating an account for a test drive is acceptable I think. I tried five instances before I found one I liked. My runner up I use as a backup in case my primary goes down for some reason.
First I narrowed down candidates to those that are regionally close to me. You can sort instance location by going to https://the-federation.info/platform/73. Further down the page you’ll see a listing of all nodes (instances). You click on the location header to sort them by country.
Then you want to look at user numbers. Too big and the instance could have overload issues. Too small and the instance may not be well established and reliable. So medium on the user counts.
Then I did a “ping” on ones that looked good to see how they do on network response.
Once I found good candidates, I created an account on each and gave it a test drive. You can see who won for me.
I like the instance policy here on world mostly, it’s open to all, and that the admins are reasonable with the rules and are quick to respond to issues.
My instance was opened by the mod team of the Brazilian subreddit, they do a great job moderating the subreddit so I trusted them when they called us to move over here. Local experience is cool because is in Portuguese and Brazil centered, so I have a good contrast with All that is almost exclusively in English and European/US centric.
Because it’s FMHY 🏴☠️
Thank you for asking this. I’m that student that had the same question but was afraid to ask.
Then I hope the answers are enlightening to us both! Takeaways so far are just choose a smaller instance and see if you can find one that specializes in your specific interests. But making sure it’s an instance that will be well and reliably run is the part I can’t figure out yet.
I’m gonna take this back a bit cause my understanding of the All tab has changed significantly from people’s responses. It seems choosing a larger instance is better for discovery, cause the All tab you see is just what people in your instance are subscribed to only, not all of the federated lemmy instances and communities. So I’m going to stick with a large instance for now (lemmy.world), then if I see a lot of content better fitting what I’m looking for on another instance, join that, or at least make an alt there.
Usually, it is correct, that the all feed would be smaller on a small instance, but “seeders”, like lcs or lemmony can make the feed in all tab much larger.
It does this by subscribing to a lot communites. Lcs does for specific communities and lemmony subscribes to everything. You can see an example of an all tab with many subscriptions(added via lemmony) at my instance
I think the easist way to check, if an instance uses one of these seeders is to check the number of subscriptions in the instance. Or just ask the admin for the instance.
How does being a student and afraid to ask relate?
It was a metaphore. I was describing myself as a student to afraid in class to ask.
A lot of people are talking about federation and access to admins. But what’s missing is defederation policy.
Lemmy is a federated network of instances. If you’re on InstanceA and you make a community on InstanceA, and I’m on InstanceB, I can connect to your community on InstanceA. UNLESS, there’s a defederation- either InstanceA or InstanceB manually block the other. This is something the admins of the instance do.
Different instances have different policies on when (if ever) they defederate. Beehaw for example defederated a number of instances, but that’s due to the experience Beehaw is trying to create- very inclusive and affirming and whatnot. That’s their choice, but it meant defederating some of the more popular public instances (including lemmy.world).
//edit: Another thing relates to creating communities. Any communities you create will ‘live’ on your instance, and thus be under your instance’s rules. Some instancess are friendly to questionable subjects like piracy and NSFW material, others are not. So even if you don’t today intend to create any communities, it’s good to be on an instancewhose rules align with your own preferences.
This could always change at the whim of an admin as well. It’s good to have admin “teams” and even foundations, but a lot of the time there’s one person making those decisions.
Users and communities could be more portable. Admins should get to decide what is on their instance for sure, but right now there’s kind of a “lock in.” Which give admins disproportional control / responsibility. IMO.
I seem to remember account migration being something that is planned to eventually be possible, but until then, more important issues take precedence (also, many code contributors leave big things like this to the main devs and contribute small improvements instead).
Tbf, beehaw plans to refederate with lemmy.world once either the moderation tools for lemmy get better or lemmy.world makes it harder for trolls to just make a new lemmy.world account when banned from beehaw.
True, but that brings up another point which I just edited into my parent comment- instance rules. Any communities you create will be hosted on your home instance and thus subject to your home instance’s rules. So you should make sure those rules align with the sort of activity you’ll want to be doing.
Yes I agree—a big part of choosing an instance is who they are defederated with.
For anyone who lives outside of the US:
Choose an instance that corresponds to your country.
Yeah. I think I’d like to move to feddit.de when that becomes a possibility. Though I kinda do like my O.G. dev.lemmy.ml account too.
https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/
You could try here, it lists the uptime and geo location of plenty of fedi instances of all stripes. Take the uptimes with a grain of salt though, if they can’t reach an instance for whatever reason it gets marked down even if it was actually fine, so it can read a bit low sometimes.
There are still a lot of syncing problems in Lemmy some outside posts show late or never show in other instances.I’m not worried about Lemmy.world despite all the attacks and issues they got. I think small instances are more chance to die than lemmy.world. If an instance die all the communities on it dies that’s not something I want to see especially if you are a mod on an community
More “portable” and secure identities would have been a good feature. The client could have handled most of the crypto required for signing and validating content. As it stands now, the instance Admin has complete control over your identity. Portable communities would follow that easily.
Most of the syncing issues are actually between the large instances or instances that having performance issues.
Smaller instance is generally better. I’ve got a couple of seeder scripts automatically federating content in order to populate my All feed, which definitely helps the place feel less empty.
What does this mean, exactly. I’m still trying to figure this all out. I’m on kbin.social. I’m hearing all about Lemmy and fediverse. I see helpful pictures that people post of clouds with arrows, indicating that there are different servers, but I’m confused as fuck.
I can’t figure out if there are two version of /r/politics, if someone else could have my username, or if I can see everything on every server, or how do I control what I see?
If anyone reads this, which I don’t think anyone will, I am really looking for a Ukraine update page. That’s the thing that made me log into reddit every day.
Yes, there are multiple people that could have your username, and you can have multiple accounts with the same username. For example, this is my third TheSaneWriter account on this platform, my first was on the defunct instance VLemmy and my second is partially active on the instance lemm.ee. Same with /c/politics, there can be as many versions of that community as there are instances, though the largest will probably be on lemmy.ml and lemmy.world. Most Lemmy frontends have 3 feeds, Subscribed, Local, and All. Subscribed is only communities that you are subscribed to, you can subscribe to any community on any instance from any other instance as long as your instance hasn’t defederated from them. Local is all of the communities on your instance, All is all of the communities that anyone on your instance has subscribed to. You can also block communities from any instance that you would like. Here’s a fairly active Ukraine community, [email protected]. There are other ones out there, but this one is the most active. I found it here: https://lemmyverse.net/communities?query=ukraine. Lemmyverse can see any community on any instance that is public to the internet, so if you are ever looking for a community feel free to check there.
This is the best explanation of the difference between Subscribed, Local and All that I’ve run into so far. I thought I understood the All tab but apparently that was a huge misconception I had before asking this question.
Reading this post should be helpful.
This is super useful, thanks for sharing! This should be included in an orientation like “first time using Lemmy?” or something, though I have no idea how that would be organized.
I started on lemmy.ml, as I code a lot. I got a lemmy.world account when I found a lot of communities there I wanted to join and a lemmy.studio account for music communities. That was a few min before I learned how to subscribe cross-instance. (I couldn’t find the communities) I could clean up teh accounts, but nah, couldn’t think of a reason why.
Now lemmy.world is my main instance with lemmy.ml as 1st backup and lemmy.studio as special interest. (and I found a Dutch instance)
For me, if you are choosing a different instances for your alt account, always have a look at the instance’s server location info and their blocked list, just in case
You’ll probably experience more performance issues if you choose larger instances. On the other hand, it’s harder to know how reliable and stable smaller instances are.
Yeah, since I’ve joined lemmy.world has been down quite a few times so I can see the problem of too many people jumping onto one instance. Just figuring out how to find out if a smaller instance is both reliable and stable as you say… Not sure what metrics I can look at or if such metrics exist
In my case I looked at the welcome post of my instance (lemm.ee) when it was still small and could tell it was definitely a good instance to choose.