In some of the music communities I’m in the content creators are already telling their userbase to go follow them on threads. They’re all talking about some kind of beef between Elon and Mark and the possibility of a boxing match… Mark was right to call the people he’s leaching off of fucking idiots.
you’re right, the average person doesn’t care about their privacy.
and not only do they not care about their privacy, they resent being called stupid for not caring about their privacy. “you’re an idiot” seems to be most privacy advocates go-to argument as to why we should all care more about privacy, and it’s really not making a very good case.
ikr? some years ago, a classmate laughed at me for not wanting to give my credit card to Google to watch a YouTube video with age restriction.
he called me “conspiranoic”, “hysterical” and stuff, and i was just like “why do i have to give my credit card to watch a freaking video?”.
he was the typical “i don’t have anything to hide” guy.
he said “it’s not a big deal, they already have lots of info about us, why do you care at this point lol”.
and i am ashamed i got influenced by them and days after, when that restriction appeared again for other videos i searched myself, i ended giving my credit card number.
and he was like making fun of it, like “see? i was right and you did it”.
damn, he was so annoying.
(sorry for this, pal. it was just to say that people gladly share their data to mega corporations, and press us to do the same by calling us conspiranoic).
That, or a photo of your ID, or some other “proof”. Depends on country too probably.
Honestly I don’t think there’s any relevant data google would gain from that that they don’t already have unless you’re very meticulous about not letting them have any, so I didn’t really care.
And you can almost certainly blame “think of the children” type of legislation for that more than google trying to collect more data. Which is also what causes the country variation, it might not be needed at all in some places.
The problem isn’t that people don’t care. The problem is that the negative consequences are too abstract/too far to see. Not so different than smoking or climate change denial.
in my case, personally, the consequences of losing privacy are… just losing privacy itself.
losing the consent on my content to be here or there, before or after,
losing freedom of what i do share and what not,
losing my right to be forgotten,
losing my right to change because people will push the impression they take from my data one day (“you say that, but back then you said this very different thing”, and shove it to you, like a Black Mirror episode),
losing my right to change, select or delete the data i shared,
losing the right not to be doxxed, harassed,
my data being leaked or used for comercial purposes, especially medical, which has already helped corruption in the medical and pharmaceutical industry,
losing the right on my image, my identity, because many people think our shared data can define us, that our shared data is a “mirror” of us, a “digital” instance of us, when it’s just a “pirated copy” of us via social engineering, by hacking consent and personal boundaries.
that data is a very corrupted and selective backup or screenshot taken of us one day, we should be able to change that data or make it not to exist in first place by default.
no matter how paranoid, abstract or crazy these arguments may sound (but sorry if i cause discomfort),
i just think it’s a human right we all should have by default, and then, voluntarily give away or not, in a selective and stoppable way.
in my case, i just don’t want to share info about myself that happily. this applies to megacorporations, but to normal people too.
i know data is the price for using “free” services, but… i just don’t find any service it’s really worth it.
(just my opinion, of course, no mean to force my view on anybody or smth).
Information is power. Information is used against you pervasively for control. This control ranges in nefariousness. You want examples? Here are some examples of consequences of use of information as a means of power:
A present or future employer making HR descisions based on your behaviour outside of work.
An insurance provider discriminating you and your coverage based on some knowledge like a pre existing condition or behaviour
Behaviour that is socially acceptable today or appropriate in context being broadcast in the future when it is not or out of context
Defamation
Extortion
Being targeted for having certain political thought
Being targeted by perpetrators of acts of violence, theft, or nuisance (think swatting)
Being manipulated into making purchasing or life descisions that are not in your best interest
Systematic or discrete racial, sexual, religious or other identity discrimination
…
The usual response to a list like this goes something along the lines of, bah, none of that will happen to me, I’m a goody-two-shoes. That advice is about as good as saying “I’m a good driver, I won’t get into a crash, so I don’t need to wear a seatbelt”. Back to my point, the consequences of information used against you are too far and too abstract for people to accept.
You say not so different from smoking or climate change, but those are on completely different scales. Unless Mark Zuckerberg is doing some Samuel L Jackson in Kingsman level nefarious shit, then I don’t think you can compare loss of privacy to getting fatal cancer or destroying the planet.
I think the average user feels “They have nothing to hide” or “I don’t really care”. However they feel this way because they think they still have the ultimate control over their privacy. They believe that if they wanted to they could pack up every byte of data and quit the internet and that their digital ball of privacy info goes home with them.
Most user probably don’t realize that the camera, gps and microphone on your internet connected devices are actively gathering data all the time.
They think that there is a special wall between what they post and what they do with the rest of their day; it’s not.
The amount of time that you use the service, what you click, how long before clicks, etc etc etc is all tracked too. There is a data profile to “anticipate” and “guide” the users to further engagement. And all of that is before you talk about how much data-selling and brokering occurs.
No, I disagree. When you ask the average person to show you their private chats, emails and passwords, they will refuse because of privacy.
Instead of not caring about privacy, people prioritize convenience over privacy. Big tech companies such as Google, Meta, Microsoft offer really good, stable products which are mainstream and generally don’t cause problems. At least, Windows 10 is way less troublesome than Linux and it’s easier to use the stock Android with Google instead of installing a custom ROM such as GrapheneOS.
To really push the privacy friendly alternatives towards the mainstream, the alternatives should become more user-friendly, less tech-savvy, and preinstalled.
I agree, but I’d add that they don’t really understand how valuable their data really is. It’s almost like being in a different country with a different currency and not being able to really do the math in your head of how much it would cost in your own currency. I grew up with the early internet where, you assumed you were on a world stage and any post you made was on display for anyone to view, but you could navigate it in relative anonymity. Now you have tech companies not only track you online (where you browse) but also in the real world. You carry a personal tracking device at all times.
People don’t quite comprehend that this is what countries spend billions of dollars on with intelligence operations. And this is the currency you are spending when you sign up for these “free” services. Just because it doesn’t come out of your bank account doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value. I’ve had discussions with friends and family and they don’t seem to understand, if your not paying for the product, YOU are the product and they are being paid for you. But because of this obfuscating of roles people will keep willing hand over their data, not understanding that these companies are building profiles to hack your psyche and influence you into doing or buying things.
They probably don’t know what actually involves giving away their data and what actually concretely means. I’m a tech guy, developer, here in the Fediverse and neither I do know actually what it means. It’s the lack of information the problem.
I could imagine it though, but it’s not the same thing. I could imagine that with my data big corps become more powerful, creating more addicting ads, contents and algorithms that eventually will fuck up the world even more. And that’s a nightmare, I know.
Metaphorically it’s like intensive farming. “I eat meat because I love it and I can’t give up on it” and as soon as no one sees what actually happens to the animals inside those farmings, no one cares.
They are my mother, father, and everyone else. Life’s hard, and too many things compete for our attention.
You’re right. Indiscriminate data collection is like the meat industry. Some people may find abhorrent how animals are treated, even how destructive the whole thing can be. But ultimately, out of sight is out of mind, right?
Like you said, the same with privacy. Apps are shiny, addictive, and seem to be given away for free. Then life happens, the mind becomes busy with what holds its attention.
We’re doomed because the game being played is simply too complex for anyone make sense of it. Any competing insight is immediately drowned under the massive torrent of data we’re all subjected to.
One problem is that it’s very hard to quantify how much our privacy, our data, is worth. There’s money to be made with it, but we, average people, have no idea how any of that works. This leads to general indifference.
Another problem I see is that most people don’t correlate their continuously worse online experience with being spied. Every facebook change led to lots complaints, but people didn’t quit, they just ate shit until they stopped complaining. Same with Twitter, Insta, Google, Youtube. Since the enshittification happens gradually, they fail to correlate one thing with another.
Yeah, I noticed that too, I just hope the amount of people who do care is big enough to have a nice and thriving community outside of corporate control.
The average person is basically a cow that has no interests besides easilly accessable movies. They watch things. They don’t actually create anything or have any hobbies or interests. They have no friends outside of work. They have no goals. They do what the people around them tell them to. They are like this because of Christianity and the Patriarchy. Those things are the reasons that the normies suddenly hate me when they see me in lipstick. That is why there are no good parents. Normie consumers want to raise other normie consumers.
To be fair, you basically have to give up on your privacy if you want to be a public figure these days. To make it most musicians have to constantly evangelize themselves, which means being omnipresent on social media platforms.
Posting your band’s tour dates on Facebook doesn’t really even change your privacy status that much.
Whether you have a Facebook account or not, Facebook tracks you around the web. Data brokers sell your data. Your cell phone company sells your location and browsing history, etc.
People over-estimate how much not using any given social media app really matters.
Now granted, installing it on your phone gives them a level of data they wouldn’t have from a web browser. That’s probably why Threads is phone-only.
Fair enough. I took efforts a few years back to eliminate all my social media, and started a new reddit (now lemmy) account and made efforts to be more anonymous
I’m sure they collect some info on me, but for me its about not just handing it over.
Ease of use comes first. Normies are very ignorant when you try to indulge them into technicalities. They do care about privacy, but then have a real life to worry about, than leaving a unique fingerprint while browsing the internet.
Most of all of them, are unaware about this situation.
Someone(GAFAM) at some point have made a decision for the internet to fill it up with bloat shit to track what you’re doing, else there wouldn’t be a need for a privacy guide.
In my opinion, they do care about privacy from people around them like you and me, they just don’t seem to care when it’s big tech companies like Meta or Google. Like for example, they won’t show you or me their “sensitive photos”, but it’s fully backed up to iCloud or Google Photos, yknow.
Exactly. It is not that they don’t care about privacy it is just that they trust them because they are the standard, they are big and government is supposed to keep them in check.
They care about visible, or tangible privacy. It’s hard for some to grasp internet privacy and why it matters if “you’re not doing anything wrong.”
But barge into their house at 4am, or open the door while they’re in the bathroom, or listen at the door while they’re having sex, and you’ll get a whole different response.
Ask them about their finances and most people won’t talk about it, but they don’t realize that facebook and google know all about it.
Ultimately, even for me as someone who cares about it, it’s just become one of those things that I don’t prioritize. Life is hard and at some point I’d rather get something cool done with gmail reading all my private conversations than struggle with my own email server.
Not saying it’s a great choice but ultimately life is short and we need to focus on doing what feels right. People have to pick their battles and that’s life.
I think the abortion and trans kids situations are putting into sharp relief the danger of large third parties knowing too much about us. Facebook is absolutely scanning its servers for signs of unwanted pregnancies and relaying that information to red state law enforcement. Other platforms may be doing the same thing.
Women in the US are advised not to use period-tracker apps, given they do often sell the data they glean, and don’t discriminate against far-right interests. And anti-abortion organizations are shopping.
On TechDirt (which I use a lot for tech-industry news) reported this in 2021, so before the Dobbs ruling was leaked or released in May / June 2022.
So, it depends on to what degree you need it confirmed, but it doesn’t seem to be buried.
My most recent trans privacy freak-out was Texas AG Ken Paxton requesting a list of all Texas drivers license / state ID records that have requested a change of sex on their ID, which can also be found searching news.
Privacy is complicated and often a luxury. Not everyone has the technical understanding to protect their privacy, nor the money to always choose the privacy-conscious option (which are almost always paid options). And to be honest, they shouldn’t really have to if governments did their jobs and brought in effective privacy protection laws.
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you’re right, the average person doesn’t care about their privacy.
and not only do they not care about their privacy, they resent being called stupid for not caring about their privacy. “you’re an idiot” seems to be most privacy advocates go-to argument as to why we should all care more about privacy, and it’s really not making a very good case.
ikr? some years ago, a classmate laughed at me for not wanting to give my credit card to Google to watch a YouTube video with age restriction.
he called me “conspiranoic”, “hysterical” and stuff, and i was just like “why do i have to give my credit card to watch a freaking video?”.
he was the typical “i don’t have anything to hide” guy. he said “it’s not a big deal, they already have lots of info about us, why do you care at this point lol”.
and i am ashamed i got influenced by them and days after, when that restriction appeared again for other videos i searched myself, i ended giving my credit card number.
and he was like making fun of it, like “see? i was right and you did it”.
damn, he was so annoying.
(sorry for this, pal. it was just to say that people gladly share their data to mega corporations, and press us to do the same by calling us conspiranoic).
ikr? some years ago, a classmate laughed at me for not wanting to give my credit card to Google to watch a YouTube video with age restriction.Wait YouTube age restriction need credit card info to unlock?
That, or a photo of your ID, or some other “proof”. Depends on country too probably.
Honestly I don’t think there’s any relevant data google would gain from that that they don’t already have unless you’re very meticulous about not letting them have any, so I didn’t really care.
And you can almost certainly blame “think of the children” type of legislation for that more than google trying to collect more data. Which is also what causes the country variation, it might not be needed at all in some places.
in my country, i was asked for my ID card, credit card or maybe (i don’t remember this one) driver’s license.
i think it was the algorhythm those weeks randomly flagging videos as age-restricted, or my account as suspicious or something.
Interesting, from where i from i just need to have google account and hit continue
Here in Germany I had to upload my ID card
I imagine how the check folks is related to local legislation.
The problem isn’t that people don’t care. The problem is that the negative consequences are too abstract/too far to see. Not so different than smoking or climate change denial.
deleted by creator
What are the negative consequences that most people seem unable to see?
This question has been asked like half a dozen times in this thread and still nobody has come up with a concrete response.
in my case, personally, the consequences of losing privacy are… just losing privacy itself.
losing the consent on my content to be here or there, before or after,
losing freedom of what i do share and what not,
losing my right to be forgotten,
losing my right to change because people will push the impression they take from my data one day (“you say that, but back then you said this very different thing”, and shove it to you, like a Black Mirror episode),
losing my right to change, select or delete the data i shared,
losing the right not to be doxxed, harassed,
my data being leaked or used for comercial purposes, especially medical, which has already helped corruption in the medical and pharmaceutical industry,
losing the right on my image, my identity, because many people think our shared data can define us, that our shared data is a “mirror” of us, a “digital” instance of us, when it’s just a “pirated copy” of us via social engineering, by hacking consent and personal boundaries.
that data is a very corrupted and selective backup or screenshot taken of us one day, we should be able to change that data or make it not to exist in first place by default.
no matter how paranoid, abstract or crazy these arguments may sound (but sorry if i cause discomfort),
i just think it’s a human right we all should have by default, and then, voluntarily give away or not, in a selective and stoppable way.
in my case, i just don’t want to share info about myself that happily. this applies to megacorporations, but to normal people too.
i know data is the price for using “free” services, but… i just don’t find any service it’s really worth it.
(just my opinion, of course, no mean to force my view on anybody or smth).
Information is power. Information is used against you pervasively for control. This control ranges in nefariousness. You want examples? Here are some examples of consequences of use of information as a means of power:
The usual response to a list like this goes something along the lines of, bah, none of that will happen to me, I’m a goody-two-shoes. That advice is about as good as saying “I’m a good driver, I won’t get into a crash, so I don’t need to wear a seatbelt”. Back to my point, the consequences of information used against you are too far and too abstract for people to accept.
You say not so different from smoking or climate change, but those are on completely different scales. Unless Mark Zuckerberg is doing some Samuel L Jackson in Kingsman level nefarious shit, then I don’t think you can compare loss of privacy to getting fatal cancer or destroying the planet.
I think the average user feels “They have nothing to hide” or “I don’t really care”. However they feel this way because they think they still have the ultimate control over their privacy. They believe that if they wanted to they could pack up every byte of data and quit the internet and that their digital ball of privacy info goes home with them.
Most user probably don’t realize that the camera, gps and microphone on your internet connected devices are actively gathering data all the time.
They think that there is a special wall between what they post and what they do with the rest of their day; it’s not.
The amount of time that you use the service, what you click, how long before clicks, etc etc etc is all tracked too. There is a data profile to “anticipate” and “guide” the users to further engagement. And all of that is before you talk about how much data-selling and brokering occurs.
No, I disagree. When you ask the average person to show you their private chats, emails and passwords, they will refuse because of privacy.
Instead of not caring about privacy, people prioritize convenience over privacy. Big tech companies such as Google, Meta, Microsoft offer really good, stable products which are mainstream and generally don’t cause problems. At least, Windows 10 is way less troublesome than Linux and it’s easier to use the stock Android with Google instead of installing a custom ROM such as GrapheneOS.
To really push the privacy friendly alternatives towards the mainstream, the alternatives should become more user-friendly, less tech-savvy, and preinstalled.
I agree, but I’d add that they don’t really understand how valuable their data really is. It’s almost like being in a different country with a different currency and not being able to really do the math in your head of how much it would cost in your own currency. I grew up with the early internet where, you assumed you were on a world stage and any post you made was on display for anyone to view, but you could navigate it in relative anonymity. Now you have tech companies not only track you online (where you browse) but also in the real world. You carry a personal tracking device at all times.
People don’t quite comprehend that this is what countries spend billions of dollars on with intelligence operations. And this is the currency you are spending when you sign up for these “free” services. Just because it doesn’t come out of your bank account doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value. I’ve had discussions with friends and family and they don’t seem to understand, if your not paying for the product, YOU are the product and they are being paid for you. But because of this obfuscating of roles people will keep willing hand over their data, not understanding that these companies are building profiles to hack your psyche and influence you into doing or buying things.
They probably don’t know what actually involves giving away their data and what actually concretely means. I’m a tech guy, developer, here in the Fediverse and neither I do know actually what it means. It’s the lack of information the problem. I could imagine it though, but it’s not the same thing. I could imagine that with my data big corps become more powerful, creating more addicting ads, contents and algorithms that eventually will fuck up the world even more. And that’s a nightmare, I know. Metaphorically it’s like intensive farming. “I eat meat because I love it and I can’t give up on it” and as soon as no one sees what actually happens to the animals inside those farmings, no one cares.
They are my mother, father, and everyone else. Life’s hard, and too many things compete for our attention.
You’re right. Indiscriminate data collection is like the meat industry. Some people may find abhorrent how animals are treated, even how destructive the whole thing can be. But ultimately, out of sight is out of mind, right?
Like you said, the same with privacy. Apps are shiny, addictive, and seem to be given away for free. Then life happens, the mind becomes busy with what holds its attention.
We’re doomed because the game being played is simply too complex for anyone make sense of it. Any competing insight is immediately drowned under the massive torrent of data we’re all subjected to.
One problem is that it’s very hard to quantify how much our privacy, our data, is worth. There’s money to be made with it, but we, average people, have no idea how any of that works. This leads to general indifference.
Another problem I see is that most people don’t correlate their continuously worse online experience with being spied. Every facebook change led to lots complaints, but people didn’t quit, they just ate shit until they stopped complaining. Same with Twitter, Insta, Google, Youtube. Since the enshittification happens gradually, they fail to correlate one thing with another.
Yeah, I noticed that too, I just hope the amount of people who do care is big enough to have a nice and thriving community outside of corporate control.
I get the feeling that the average person doesn’t understand what privacy means in relation to the Internet.
Privacy doesn’t matter on the Internet unless you want it.
No shit! Think of how stupid the average normie is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
The average person is basically a cow that has no interests besides easilly accessable movies. They watch things. They don’t actually create anything or have any hobbies or interests. They have no friends outside of work. They have no goals. They do what the people around them tell them to. They are like this because of Christianity and the Patriarchy. Those things are the reasons that the normies suddenly hate me when they see me in lipstick. That is why there are no good parents. Normie consumers want to raise other normie consumers.
I think they either don’t care or don’t know. I hady partner reread the tos she clicked away without reading and was horrified
To be fair, you basically have to give up on your privacy if you want to be a public figure these days. To make it most musicians have to constantly evangelize themselves, which means being omnipresent on social media platforms.
Posting your band’s tour dates on Facebook doesn’t really even change your privacy status that much.
Whether you have a Facebook account or not, Facebook tracks you around the web. Data brokers sell your data. Your cell phone company sells your location and browsing history, etc.
People over-estimate how much not using any given social media app really matters.
Now granted, installing it on your phone gives them a level of data they wouldn’t have from a web browser. That’s probably why Threads is phone-only.
Fair enough. I took efforts a few years back to eliminate all my social media, and started a new reddit (now lemmy) account and made efforts to be more anonymous
I’m sure they collect some info on me, but for me its about not just handing it over.
Ease of use comes first. Normies are very ignorant when you try to indulge them into technicalities. They do care about privacy, but then have a real life to worry about, than leaving a unique fingerprint while browsing the internet. Most of all of them, are unaware about this situation.
Someone(GAFAM) at some point have made a decision for the internet to fill it up with bloat shit to track what you’re doing, else there wouldn’t be a need for a privacy guide.
In my opinion, they do care about privacy from people around them like you and me, they just don’t seem to care when it’s big tech companies like Meta or Google. Like for example, they won’t show you or me their “sensitive photos”, but it’s fully backed up to iCloud or Google Photos, yknow.
Exactly. It is not that they don’t care about privacy it is just that they trust them because they are the standard, they are big and government is supposed to keep them in check.
People trust the system way too much
it’s also that you can’t see what google is doing with your photos, so no reasonto be too bothered
They care about visible, or tangible privacy. It’s hard for some to grasp internet privacy and why it matters if “you’re not doing anything wrong.”
But barge into their house at 4am, or open the door while they’re in the bathroom, or listen at the door while they’re having sex, and you’ll get a whole different response.
Ask them about their finances and most people won’t talk about it, but they don’t realize that facebook and google know all about it.
Ultimately, even for me as someone who cares about it, it’s just become one of those things that I don’t prioritize. Life is hard and at some point I’d rather get something cool done with gmail reading all my private conversations than struggle with my own email server.
Not saying it’s a great choice but ultimately life is short and we need to focus on doing what feels right. People have to pick their battles and that’s life.
That’s kind of a fatalistic view on life.
You could have just used Protonmail or something.
Most of these battles are very interconnected. Destroying one part of this horrible system will leave a flank open for the rest to fall.
They need to spy on us, so they can stop any real fight, riot against other issues that are plaguing us, like inflation, climate change and etc.
I think the abortion and trans kids situations are putting into sharp relief the danger of large third parties knowing too much about us. Facebook is absolutely scanning its servers for signs of unwanted pregnancies and relaying that information to red state law enforcement. Other platforms may be doing the same thing.
Women in the US are advised not to use period-tracker apps, given they do often sell the data they glean, and don’t discriminate against far-right interests. And anti-abortion organizations are shopping.
I’m not saying I don’t believe you and I wouldn’t put it past right wingers. But I gotta ask if you have a source for any of what you said here?
Welp, a short internet news search of period tracker led me to this interview on Slate
On TechDirt (which I use a lot for tech-industry news) reported this in 2021, so before the Dobbs ruling was leaked or released in May / June 2022.
So, it depends on to what degree you need it confirmed, but it doesn’t seem to be buried.
My most recent trans privacy freak-out was Texas AG Ken Paxton requesting a list of all Texas drivers license / state ID records that have requested a change of sex on their ID, which can also be found searching news.
Actually, the guy was only asking for how many they were, and the report was never made anyways.
Privacy is complicated and often a luxury. Not everyone has the technical understanding to protect their privacy, nor the money to always choose the privacy-conscious option (which are almost always paid options). And to be honest, they shouldn’t really have to if governments did their jobs and brought in effective privacy protection laws.