Communism works nice in theory, and in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. But we
e can definity re-shitproof internet based services.
Shitty people always ended up in charge and found a way to enrich themselves. Maybe in the far future once we have a true artificial intelligence, communism can truly work after they elect some unbiased AI (no skynet please) to be their leader.
Who will direct productions if someone not in charge of anything? Who stops bad actors from inciting their society into anarchy if no one wield any power to control the population?
That’s very noble but sadly I don’t trust humanity at current state to be able to do that. We’ll probably need to genetically engineer selfishness out of humanity’s gene pool before communism has any chance to success.
No, we don’t need eugenics to ensure socialism. People are plenty empathetic as it is. The biggest hurdle to true selflessness at the minute is living in a society that incentivises greed. And that is the fault of capitalism.
Or at least have them be publicly owned common good, owned by multiple countries with editorial independence from the get go and funded through taxation. That would be a start.
Goes without saying. Look at the profits of the companies providing essential resources like energy. They most certainly didn’t let a good crisis go to waste.
When you say “workers” do you mean the actual workers or some vanguard party of intellectual champagne socialists who make decisions on the workers’ behalf?
Obviously they meant the former since that’s what we’re literally doing here. But even the latter would do a better job managing Twitter/Reddit than what they have now.
Do you think OP is a Marxist-Leninist, posting online using a decentralized protocol ironically controlled by workers, to subtly build support for a big government-run website?
Actual workers. If we made a society where people are taken care of, we’d find most folks would be enthusiastic about their work. Saying “people don’t want to work” is often taken at face value when the reality is that most people do want to work, because it helps them feel a sense of purpose. They don’t, however, want to be exploited/work under capitalism because that is soul crushing.
Oh I agree completely with all of that. I just have been duped before by MLs saying worker ownership and what they really mean is their particular political party controlling everything. If everything is run by workers’ councils with no existence of a vanguard party, that would be paradise for me.
I would also go beyond saying that labor (not “work,” as IMO the word “work” implies labor under capitalism) gives people a sense of purpose in that it gives communities a sense of purpose and connectedness. When we are all sharing in common labor toward the goal of enhancing our community and generally improving lives, we feel a more collectivized responsibility for one another.
Thats some high quality bruh. FOSS software and communism have very little in common. Yeah sure power for the people, but thinking that everyone should be equal in this enviroment is misleading. Lemmy like every other platform still has to have moderators that are over normal users. The ecosystem itself does not allow abuse. Eg. You can have a strict mod and then host your own instance that is true free speech or whatsoever. If u gonna post nazi stuff or smth like that then they gonna defederate. It’s better in some sort because u don’t have spam monkey and other extremists but still u get to choose your own poison.
This is some LibSoc thinking. See: in early USSR days when they tried more worker-cooperative based ownership they had to stop because the factory workers kept just immediately selling their factories for money now that they owned them.
Allowing capitalist relations to persist, even if basic goods like food and homes were nationalized, enables a society in which capitalist profiteers continue to operate. History shows pretty explicitly that Capital will use the levers of power that exist, like The State, to eat away at or overturn any socialistic advances. E.g., suddenly the luxury capitalist corporation that sells idk, pearls, is lobbying (bribing) their way into privatizing beaches from which they operate. Slowly but surely the socioeconomic relations produced under capitalism foment and claw their way back to their former position. This requires a constant, indefinitely revolutionary society to keep capitalist relations at bay; that sort of momentum is not possible to sustain, certainly at the current moment.
It’s necessary to abolish capitalists as a class because leaving capitalist systems of relations alone enables them to continue to re-produce themselves.
That doesn’t preclude this sort of dual-economic setup from being a good thing, just insufficient.
Using socialism as a boogeyman by definition, is a poor argument. There are merits to many different economic systems, many of which have pros and cons, capitalism and socialism included.
The laugh, and “listen” while providing absolutely no reasoning demonstrates a certain level of arrogance, while at the same time demonstrating a lack of knowledge on the subject
Every single socialist country is an example of working socialism having lifted millions of people out of poverty, provided them with, food, housing education, and jobs. Meanwhile, we’re still looking for examples of working capitalism where majority of the population is not being exploited for the benefit of the capital owning oligarchy.
Wow. Read the rest of the thread because I’m not gonna rewrite stuff.
But as I was saying. I live in post communist country and the influence of socialism was extraordinarily destructive and I can see damage made from it to these days.
I grew up in USSR, and I lived through the collapse of USSR. It was one of the biggest humanitarian disasters in history. People who are cheering that on are the ones who benefit from all the exploitation under capitalism today. People who got theirs and don’t care about anything else. Deplorable.
Only a small percentage of socialists (albeit larger in this instance) hold the USSR up as anything but an example of an early, ham-fisted attempt at socialism with a lot of mistakes. If there have been no places socialism has worked yet (debatable, but I’ll argue from this position), that disproves nothing. The first several hundred tries at the lightbulb were probably failures, too, but capitalists talk about that failure as a side effect of innovation without realizing that social systems might need innovation too. I’m sorry if you suffered under an authoritarian socialist government; there’s nothing inherent about the connection between those two characteristics. But authoritarian governments tend to survive better against the kinds of conspiracies and attacks established capitalist governments launch against socialist ones, so you get to see what’s left. (If you don’t know about this, go to a library, start with…maybe Allende in ‘73…It’s very well-documented.). In sum, it has nothing to do with not caring about people harmed by authoritarianism. It has to do with seeing the evils of the system around us and refusing to accept that this is the best humanity can do. I’m sorry you can’t see that. But I’m not letting my friends’ access to insulin sit in the greedy hands of insurance companies without a fight. I’m not living in a pay-to-play political system where donors’ interests matter more than voters’ my whole life if I have anything to say about it. Regardless of your beliefs.
I think perhaps you meant to reply to the parent comment, I certainly did not suffer in USSR and the dissolution of USSR was a great tragedy in my view.
USSR obviously wasn’t the ideal of socialism. In fact, it would be pretty surprising if the first ever attempt at building a socialist society didn’t have problems. Obviously we can learn from USSR and do better going forward. However, I do think that despite all its problems, USSR did manage to achieve many positive outcomes for the majority of the people. It provided everyone with education, housing, healthcare, jobs, and all the necessities of life. This was done despite USSR having been under duress during its whole existence and it’s something that current capitalist regimes are unable to achieve.
Some people were effectevelly not much different from slaves up until 1970 as they had no passport, worked for food (oh, sorry, for workdays, which is even worse) and required permission to move from kolhoz. Ah tankies never change.
All what communists did for citizens is: lost the election, overturned it with force and forced millions of people back to medieval society with fancy goals.
NoT MuCh DifFeReNT FrOm SlaVes. Should really read up on what actual serfdom was like before the revolution instead of making a clown of yourself in public.
You are making the extraordinary claim, that despite socialism being used throughout the world, it simply doesn’t work. Therefore the onus of proof is on you. So, can you please describe why socialism doesn’t work?
China, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos are all examples of socialist countries today. China alone lifted over 800 million people out of poverty in recent decades. Compare that to the capitalist paradise in India.
China is a terrible example of a socialist economy, and the others are still mired by poverty. One could claim that is due to capitalist sabotage, but I don’t think it does socialism any favors to use them as success stories.
China is in fact an excellent example of a socialist country. Here’s a detailed explanation for you that’s well sourced and referenced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7Th2aV0wM
Not really, Nordic model is capitalist because the capital owning class owns the means of production and holds power in society. Nordic model has generous social services and a social safety net, but that of itself does not make it socialist. A socialist model implies that it is the working class that holds power and that means of production are under a mix of public and cooperative ownership. This is the model that all western countries fight against.
Some of the richest countries in the world have a socialist framework in place lol. Norway, Switzerland, The Netherlands etc. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Honestly I don’t even know where to start with this, so I’ll keep it simple. Enshittification of Twitter, Reddit et al. is not necessarily a result of capitalism, and likewise Fediverse doesn’t exist because “workers took the means of production”.
For example the disastrous YouTube monetisation policy comes in part from a desire to keep the site “child friendly” (that’s why swear words and gore are banned), and in part due to a need to follow existing copyright law.
Even if YouTube was run by a worker co-op, or was a state enterprise those two factors would likely still lead to stringent monetisation rules.
Monetisation rules are a direct result of capitalism. Profits are what motivates the decision making. In a post-capitalism economy it would be the needs and wants that motivates the decision making. One of the failures of capitalism is that we assume wants/needs has a correlation with profits, when clearly the enshitification demonstrates otherwise.
In socialism nobody wants to work so good luck with your YouTube. There is a reason for proprietary software being most popular and often more feature rich. What we need is capitalism + more opensource work from us, regular people. Capitalism + opensource is way to go.
Nobody? Look to be honest there are some lazy people that dont want to work but most of us will be happy to work in a socialist economy where we the workers get compensated fairly. Capitalism and open source dont go hand by hand. People is literally creating all of this amazing products for free!! Workinf for the community thats what socialism is. And also the proprietary software is more “popular” because big companies just take open source and make it proprietary then they said they created just look at Apple and RedHat.
huge part of opensource is funded and developed by capitalistic companies. Take Linux for example.
And imagine if you wanted to open your own coffee shop. Where would you get a place for it? From the state probably. But what if they decide that there is no need for new coffee shop? You would have problem. In capitalism on the other hand you have your free will and as long as you have money you can open your coffee shop anytime anywhere. I know it’s not really as easy to make money but if capitalism isn’t broken by stupid regulations and other nonsense it really can work, allowing you to take cheap loans and start your own businesses.
I live in a post communist country and trust me I know how shitty socialism is
If you seriously compare socialism with opensource then I’m sorry for you.
I’m huge advocate for opensource software and I can even say it’s my life passion and I really know how important the relation between capitalism and opensource is.
You wouldn’t have react.js without capitalism. You know what is made in react.js? Mastodon
They could have used different library for js. one made totally by volunteers, but they haven’t. Why? Capitalism and opensource provide reliable products because there is a money factor and it fuels development
When somebody thinks that something like react.js wouldn’t be possible without capitalism, you can only laugh or cry. If you really can’t understand that open source existed long before corps started messing with it, then you’re an utter ignoramus not worth having a discussion with.
If you seriously compare socialism with opensource then I’m sorry for you.
This is how big tech saw free software until quite recently. Microsoft used to call linux communist.
FOSS basically goes against the concept of private property of software and embraced common ownership of software. Without private property, there is no capitalism. I wouldn’t call FOSS communism or socialism, but there are elements in it.
You wouldn’t have react.js without capitalism.
Ok, and what’s your point? If you read Marx, one essential point he claims is that without capitalism, there cannot be socialism.
They could have used different library for js. one made totally by volunteers, but they haven’t. Why?
Probably because they saw no use in reinventing the wheel? And why should they?
It’s as if you told a revolutionary during the French revolution “You used weapons that you looted from the Bastille, weapons that were produced by the king.”. What exactly would be the argument here?
Lol, enshitification of these services are happening because the owners want to extract as much money as possible from the users. Workers would do the same even if they owned it. How many people would turn down millions of dollars because users don’t like the change?
You must think that humans are inherently greedy and/or are projecting what you would do in a scenario where you’re part of a worker co-op. Most workplaces aren’t worth millions. Most folks who round themselves in a worker co-op would most likely try to better the operation for everyone.
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Communism works nice in theory, and in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. But we e can definity re-shitproof internet based services.
Shitty people always ended up in charge and found a way to enrich themselves. Maybe in the far future once we have a true artificial intelligence, communism can truly work after they elect some unbiased AI (no skynet please) to be their leader.
If someone’s in charge, it’s not communism
Who will direct productions if someone not in charge of anything? Who stops bad actors from inciting their society into anarchy if no one wield any power to control the population?
The answer to both questions is the people themselves. We’re stronger together. No individual can stop the collective will.
That’s very noble but sadly I don’t trust humanity at current state to be able to do that. We’ll probably need to genetically engineer selfishness out of humanity’s gene pool before communism has any chance to success.
No, we don’t need eugenics to ensure socialism. People are plenty empathetic as it is. The biggest hurdle to true selflessness at the minute is living in a society that incentivises greed. And that is the fault of capitalism.
Which is precisely why the first step of the communist experiment is Class Consciousness.
Amazing how many people will step in to defend the ownership of everything to a small minority. They will not reward bootlicking yet yall continue.
What I learned from observation is that they tend to believe that, one day, they will be part of the “small minority”. The American Dream!!!1
“It’s called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it”
Look, they’re just temporary inconvenienced billionaires.
Or at least have them be publicly owned common good, owned by multiple countries with editorial independence from the get go and funded through taxation. That would be a start.
Goes without saying. Look at the profits of the companies providing essential resources like energy. They most certainly didn’t let a good crisis go to waste.
Commie memes on my front page? This place is cool AF
When you say “workers” do you mean the actual workers or some vanguard party of intellectual champagne socialists who make decisions on the workers’ behalf?
Obviously they meant the former since that’s what we’re literally doing here. But even the latter would do a better job managing Twitter/Reddit than what they have now.
Is it obvious though? MLs mean something very different from anarchists when they say “workers” in this context
Do you think OP is a Marxist-Leninist, posting online using a decentralized protocol ironically controlled by workers, to subtly build support for a big government-run website?
THAT IS WHY I AM ASKING
That doesn’t seem a little convoluted, improbable, and nonsensical to you?
THAT IS WHY I AM ASKING
I’M ASKING IF THE SKY IS RED BECAUSE I CAN SEE THAT IT’S BLUE
Actual workers. If we made a society where people are taken care of, we’d find most folks would be enthusiastic about their work. Saying “people don’t want to work” is often taken at face value when the reality is that most people do want to work, because it helps them feel a sense of purpose. They don’t, however, want to be exploited/work under capitalism because that is soul crushing.
Oh I agree completely with all of that. I just have been duped before by MLs saying worker ownership and what they really mean is their particular political party controlling everything. If everything is run by workers’ councils with no existence of a vanguard party, that would be paradise for me.
I would also go beyond saying that labor (not “work,” as IMO the word “work” implies labor under capitalism) gives people a sense of purpose in that it gives communities a sense of purpose and connectedness. When we are all sharing in common labor toward the goal of enhancing our community and generally improving lives, we feel a more collectivized responsibility for one another.
Alienation isn’t limited to the workplace anymore. It has found it’s way into the platforms we spend our free time on.
Incidentally, I wrote a detailed article on the subject a while back https://justiceinternationale.com/articles/2020-12-02-we-must-own-our-tools/
Thats some high quality bruh. FOSS software and communism have very little in common. Yeah sure power for the people, but thinking that everyone should be equal in this enviroment is misleading. Lemmy like every other platform still has to have moderators that are over normal users. The ecosystem itself does not allow abuse. Eg. You can have a strict mod and then host your own instance that is true free speech or whatsoever. If u gonna post nazi stuff or smth like that then they gonna defederate. It’s better in some sort because u don’t have spam monkey and other extremists but still u get to choose your own poison.
Tell me you don’t know what communism is without telling me you don’t know what communism is.
Based meme, beautiful praxis.
This is some LibSoc thinking. See: in early USSR days when they tried more worker-cooperative based ownership they had to stop because the factory workers kept just immediately selling their factories for money now that they owned them.
This is what I think every time I see this socialist / capitalist dichotomy set up:
also I know Im not using the meme right.
Allowing capitalist relations to persist, even if basic goods like food and homes were nationalized, enables a society in which capitalist profiteers continue to operate. History shows pretty explicitly that Capital will use the levers of power that exist, like The State, to eat away at or overturn any socialistic advances. E.g., suddenly the luxury capitalist corporation that sells idk, pearls, is lobbying (bribing) their way into privatizing beaches from which they operate. Slowly but surely the socioeconomic relations produced under capitalism foment and claw their way back to their former position. This requires a constant, indefinitely revolutionary society to keep capitalist relations at bay; that sort of momentum is not possible to sustain, certainly at the current moment.
It’s necessary to abolish capitalists as a class because leaving capitalist systems of relations alone enables them to continue to re-produce themselves.
That doesn’t preclude this sort of dual-economic setup from being a good thing, just insufficient.
No, lol 😂
Listen, socialism doesn’t work.
Using socialism as a boogeyman by definition, is a poor argument. There are merits to many different economic systems, many of which have pros and cons, capitalism and socialism included.
The laugh, and “listen” while providing absolutely no reasoning demonstrates a certain level of arrogance, while at the same time demonstrating a lack of knowledge on the subject
Yeah I could have given arguments in the same comment.
You had two chances here and you didn’t. The platform you are on is brought to you by a communist.
What’s your definition of socialiam
Thank you for providing a great example of being confidently incorrect.
Do you have any example of working socialism?
Every single socialist country is an example of working socialism having lifted millions of people out of poverty, provided them with, food, housing education, and jobs. Meanwhile, we’re still looking for examples of working capitalism where majority of the population is not being exploited for the benefit of the capital owning oligarchy.
Wow. Read the rest of the thread because I’m not gonna rewrite stuff.
But as I was saying. I live in post communist country and the influence of socialism was extraordinarily destructive and I can see damage made from it to these days.
I grew up in USSR, and I lived through the collapse of USSR. It was one of the biggest humanitarian disasters in history. People who are cheering that on are the ones who benefit from all the exploitation under capitalism today. People who got theirs and don’t care about anything else. Deplorable.
Only a small percentage of socialists (albeit larger in this instance) hold the USSR up as anything but an example of an early, ham-fisted attempt at socialism with a lot of mistakes. If there have been no places socialism has worked yet (debatable, but I’ll argue from this position), that disproves nothing. The first several hundred tries at the lightbulb were probably failures, too, but capitalists talk about that failure as a side effect of innovation without realizing that social systems might need innovation too. I’m sorry if you suffered under an authoritarian socialist government; there’s nothing inherent about the connection between those two characteristics. But authoritarian governments tend to survive better against the kinds of conspiracies and attacks established capitalist governments launch against socialist ones, so you get to see what’s left. (If you don’t know about this, go to a library, start with…maybe Allende in ‘73…It’s very well-documented.). In sum, it has nothing to do with not caring about people harmed by authoritarianism. It has to do with seeing the evils of the system around us and refusing to accept that this is the best humanity can do. I’m sorry you can’t see that. But I’m not letting my friends’ access to insulin sit in the greedy hands of insurance companies without a fight. I’m not living in a pay-to-play political system where donors’ interests matter more than voters’ my whole life if I have anything to say about it. Regardless of your beliefs.
I think perhaps you meant to reply to the parent comment, I certainly did not suffer in USSR and the dissolution of USSR was a great tragedy in my view.
USSR obviously wasn’t the ideal of socialism. In fact, it would be pretty surprising if the first ever attempt at building a socialist society didn’t have problems. Obviously we can learn from USSR and do better going forward. However, I do think that despite all its problems, USSR did manage to achieve many positive outcomes for the majority of the people. It provided everyone with education, housing, healthcare, jobs, and all the necessities of life. This was done despite USSR having been under duress during its whole existence and it’s something that current capitalist regimes are unable to achieve.
“Lifted millions out of poverty”
Some people were effectevelly not much different from slaves up until 1970 as they had no passport, worked for food (oh, sorry, for workdays, which is even worse) and required permission to move from kolhoz. Ah tankies never change.
All what communists did for citizens is: lost the election, overturned it with force and forced millions of people back to medieval society with fancy goals.
NoT MuCh DifFeReNT FrOm SlaVes. Should really read up on what actual serfdom was like before the revolution instead of making a clown of yourself in public.
You are making the extraordinary claim, that despite socialism being used throughout the world, it simply doesn’t work. Therefore the onus of proof is on you. So, can you please describe why socialism doesn’t work?
Where. Give me an example of a socialist country
China, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos are all examples of socialist countries today. China alone lifted over 800 million people out of poverty in recent decades. Compare that to the capitalist paradise in India.
China is a terrible example of a socialist economy, and the others are still mired by poverty. One could claim that is due to capitalist sabotage, but I don’t think it does socialism any favors to use them as success stories.
China is in fact an excellent example of a socialist country. Here’s a detailed explanation for you that’s well sourced and referenced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7Th2aV0wM
Does countries of Nordic model count? I heard good things about them.
Not really, Nordic model is capitalist because the capital owning class owns the means of production and holds power in society. Nordic model has generous social services and a social safety net, but that of itself does not make it socialist. A socialist model implies that it is the working class that holds power and that means of production are under a mix of public and cooperative ownership. This is the model that all western countries fight against.
Some of the richest countries in the world have a socialist framework in place lol. Norway, Switzerland, The Netherlands etc. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
None of those countries are socialist.
That’s not socialism. That’s socdem. And it’s still capitalism
Oh you’re moving the goal post.
No that really isn’t socialism.
Socialist policies aren’t socialist? You’re either trolling or retarded.
Those countries are actually capitalist, but with strong worker protections
https://www.lifeinnorway.net/scandinavian-socialism/
Honestly I don’t even know where to start with this, so I’ll keep it simple. Enshittification of Twitter, Reddit et al. is not necessarily a result of capitalism, and likewise Fediverse doesn’t exist because “workers took the means of production”.
For example the disastrous YouTube monetisation policy comes in part from a desire to keep the site “child friendly” (that’s why swear words and gore are banned), and in part due to a need to follow existing copyright law.
Even if YouTube was run by a worker co-op, or was a state enterprise those two factors would likely still lead to stringent monetisation rules.
Monetisation rules are a direct result of capitalism. Profits are what motivates the decision making. In a post-capitalism economy it would be the needs and wants that motivates the decision making. One of the failures of capitalism is that we assume wants/needs has a correlation with profits, when clearly the enshitification demonstrates otherwise.
In socialism nobody wants to work so good luck with your YouTube. There is a reason for proprietary software being most popular and often more feature rich. What we need is capitalism + more opensource work from us, regular people. Capitalism + opensource is way to go.
Nobody? Look to be honest there are some lazy people that dont want to work but most of us will be happy to work in a socialist economy where we the workers get compensated fairly. Capitalism and open source dont go hand by hand. People is literally creating all of this amazing products for free!! Workinf for the community thats what socialism is. And also the proprietary software is more “popular” because big companies just take open source and make it proprietary then they said they created just look at Apple and RedHat.
huge part of opensource is funded and developed by capitalistic companies. Take Linux for example.
And imagine if you wanted to open your own coffee shop. Where would you get a place for it? From the state probably. But what if they decide that there is no need for new coffee shop? You would have problem. In capitalism on the other hand you have your free will and as long as you have money you can open your coffee shop anytime anywhere. I know it’s not really as easy to make money but if capitalism isn’t broken by stupid regulations and other nonsense it really can work, allowing you to take cheap loans and start your own businesses.
I live in a post communist country and trust me I know how shitty socialism is
Not from the state. From the community. And the community would be happy for more nice stuff
They said, on a decentralized, free and open source platform, developed by socialists.
You posted this on an open source platform built by volunteers without any hint of irony. 🤡
If you seriously compare socialism with opensource then I’m sorry for you.
I’m huge advocate for opensource software and I can even say it’s my life passion and I really know how important the relation between capitalism and opensource is.
You wouldn’t have react.js without capitalism. You know what is made in react.js? Mastodon
They could have used different library for js. one made totally by volunteers, but they haven’t. Why? Capitalism and opensource provide reliable products because there is a money factor and it fuels development
😂
Constructive reply
Clown shit doesn’t deserve ‘constructive’ replies tbqhwu
When somebody thinks that something like react.js wouldn’t be possible without capitalism, you can only laugh or cry. If you really can’t understand that open source existed long before corps started messing with it, then you’re an utter ignoramus not worth having a discussion with.
This is how big tech saw free software until quite recently. Microsoft used to call linux communist.
FOSS basically goes against the concept of private property of software and embraced common ownership of software. Without private property, there is no capitalism. I wouldn’t call FOSS communism or socialism, but there are elements in it.
Ok, and what’s your point? If you read Marx, one essential point he claims is that without capitalism, there cannot be socialism.
Probably because they saw no use in reinventing the wheel? And why should they?
It’s as if you told a revolutionary during the French revolution “You used weapons that you looted from the Bastille, weapons that were produced by the king.”. What exactly would be the argument here?
Enshittification of those services is a direct symptom of capitalism.
No one is arguing that the fediverse exists because of workers owning the means of production.
You should really look into what “enshittification” means and how it’s a direct result of capitalism.
Lol, enshitification of these services are happening because the owners want to extract as much money as possible from the users. Workers would do the same even if they owned it. How many people would turn down millions of dollars because users don’t like the change?
Ah, yes, we can see it with all the communities running their own Mastodon servers and extracting the maximum of wealth from their users. /s
You must think that humans are inherently greedy and/or are projecting what you would do in a scenario where you’re part of a worker co-op. Most workplaces aren’t worth millions. Most folks who round themselves in a worker co-op would most likely try to better the operation for everyone.
I see you haven’t met my co-workers. Or my neighbors.