Let me preface by saying, I would love to hear counter points and am fully open to the fact that I could be wrong and totally out of touch. I just want to have some dialogue around something that’s been bothering me in the fediverse.
More and more often I keep hearing people refer to “normies”. I think by referring to other people as “normies”, whether you intend to or not, you inadvertently gatekeep and create an exclusive environment rather than an inclusive one in the fediverse.
If I was not that familiar with the fediverse and decided to check it out and the first thing I read was a comment about “normies”, I would quite honestly be very put off. It totally has a negative connotation and doesn’t even encapsulate any one group. I just read a comment about someone grouping a racist uncle and funny friend into the same category of normie because they aren’t up to date on the fediverse or super tech savvy or whatever.
I don’t want to see any Meta bs in the fediverse. I barely want to see half of the stuff from Reddit in the fediverse. I don’t want to see the same echo chamber I do everywhere else.
I do want to see more users and more perspectives and a larger user base though. I want to see kindness and compassion. I want to talk to people about topics they are interested in. I want to have relevant discussions without it dissolving into some commentary on some unrelated hot topic thing.
I think calling people normies creates a more toxic, exclusive place which I personally came here to avoid.
Just my two cents! I know for most people using the term it isn’t meant to be malicious, but I think it comes off that way.
I think that context is really important. I’ve mostly seen this term used by neurodivergent people when expressing frustration with not being understood by the general populace. Also, these conversations were usually in spaces created by and for neurodivergent people, so the use of normie to indicate everyone else makes sense to me. In that context, it always comes across as kind of self-deprecating to me, an acknowledgement that the person speaking isn’t considered normal because of their condition.
Based on the context you’ve described, I’m not surprised you don’t like the term. If that was were I first encountered it I wouldn’t like it either.
Often times the only reason people use certain trigger words is because they know they are trigger words. The more you reveal your triggers, the more some people will use them.
I’ve only really seen it in two contexts. Mainly “don’t scare the normies”, which was largely the advice given to my larp communities to not freak out people in real life with their hobby stuff, and probably also applies to subcultures like furries and such. And secondarily as self-deprecating. I’m a Facebook meme group “Normie Has-Beens” tied to the page “Stale Memes for Normie Has-Beens”, and it’s certainly not people who consider themselves normal.
The internet has a way of taking things that are used sarcastically and removing every bit of irony. The Flat Earth Society, PCMR, and The Donald subreddit all started out as making fun of the people that are now 100% unironically part of very thriving (and toxic to differing levels) communities.
I think that will almost certainly happen to the word normie, if it hasn’t already.
This post and many of the comments should make it abundantly clear folks have an entirely different experience with the word. I’m not sure what you’re trying to add to the conversation other than to try and claim everyone else doesn’t have valid concerns.
Normie is a term used in many circles, not exclusively fediverse. I don’t think it’s a slur, as the people who use it aren’t inciting violence or enacting discriminatory pricing or whatever. It’s like calling a person boring.
To be completely blunt about it, if someone uses “normie” seriously, I expect they also think they’re oppressed by age-of-consent laws and possibly also laws against rape. At the very least, they don’t own a TV because there aren’t enough lolis on basic cable.
if terf isn’t a slur, Normie isn’t either. people seem to get irrationally upset about the word normal. normal is a well defined word, the same way cis is but it seems one group is fine with one whilst the other isn’t.
instead of focusing on labels and how much they upset you (I don’t mean who I am replying to), focus on understanding and respecting people’s differences, regardless of terminology.
Actually I think it is quite a stretch to call them feminists in any way. 99% of the time they ally with the far right and many of their leaders advocate against things like contraception and healthcare for women
I also read the comment about the racist uncle, it was a discussion of the different kind of people facebook (I won’t call it meta) will be going to expose us when they join the fediverse. The person who post it wasn’t attacking the “normies”.
About the term “normie” isn’t necessary an insult or just a person who isn’t up with technology, but instead someone who enjoy more basic things. Is OK to be a normie if that’s makes you happy.
I don’t get why is OK for them to call us “nerds” (most of the times in a not sarcastic manner) but not for is to call them “normies” (in a sarcastic manner).
Most of the times that we invite a “normie” to the fediverse they reject us, “I don’t like that”, “facebook is better”, " that’s for nerds" they say, and that happens also with music, books, even food, they are just comfortable with how things are and that’s OK.
It isn’t that we are gatekeeping, but instead that they don’t want to join us.
To me how you are talking about this is kind of exactly my point. The “normie” you are describing just sounds like an asshole and I think that’s the negative connotation and exclusion I’m talking about.
What would you categorize me as? I surf, skate, lift weights, travel, was in a fraternity at a major university, have a beautiful wife and live in suburbia in California close to the beach, started my career in finance and sales (not anymore though). On the flip side, I have ADHD, I have a masters in pharmaceutical sciences, I work with a team of software engineers, I game, tinker with my PC, I read scientific journals on particle physics and a ton of sci-fi and fantasy, I read tech blogs every day, I love the fediverse, etc.
See what I’m getting at? Like it is totally creating an unnecessary and unhelpful division in my eyes.
the term always gives me images of channer culture; like it reminds me when the internet as a whole thought that 4chan and its ilk were cool and elite for being shitty for “lulz”
Doesn’t “normie” come from /b/? I don’t think I saw it used anywhere else until shitposting subs like /r/dankmemes started calling who don’t use memes correctly normies
Uh … I was in circles that used words like “norms” and “normals” and, yes, “normies” before the Internet was a “thing”. SF fandom of the '70s was easily as nerdy and toxic as are any of today’s Internet circle jerks.
Sorry, Kiddies1, but very little of what you do is new. Sometimes the techniques are new (because technology happened) but humans have been human for, well, as long as humans have existed.
1 If you’re finding this word offensive, you might want to take a long, hard look at how you use words like the one that triggered this thread before the inevitable downvoting.
“Normie” is one of the few words that I cringe over everytime I read it. I consider myself to be in, or adjacent to, the group of people that would use that word, since I am tech affinitive and that group is usually the one that uses it. But I cringe everytime I see it used unironically because I don’t want non-tech affinitive (or lesser affinitive) people to lump every person that has something to do with IT or similar into the group of people they don’t want nothing to do with because they’re always condescending towards them.
It’s literally like as if you’re saying “Did you know that I have an IQ of 150?”.
You’re not gatekeeping anyone out of your life by using that word, you’re gatekeeping yourself out of every “normal” persons life by using that word.
I 100% agree that word is cringe and I’m totally into the fediverse for the long haul, but we have to address the pachyderm in the room: The word “Fediverse” is just as cringe.
I, … I’m sorry. I can read it in a document, but the second a human being types it, I can’t take it seriously. I don’t care if folks want to shorten it to something like the FI (Federated Instances). Yes, there are other uses of the word “federate”, but it immediately sounds like a federal intraweb domain or a group of Star Trek policy makers.
“Fediverse” is “netizen 2.0.”
“Fediverse” is “cruising on the information superhighway Pro.”
Please tell me I’m not alone in thinking this.
This makes a lot of sense! And I would argue if you just met me you would 1000% put me in the normie category. Buuut if you got to know me you would come to find out I’m a goofy uber nerd who works with a bunch of software engineers and loves technology and gaming and reading scientific journals on particle physics.
I quite frankly don’t want to be in either group because the entire concept of normie vs not normie is kind of silly in my opinion.
I don’t know, you have a better word than that? If you want to refer to everyone from your coworkers to the supermarket cashier to your grandma, that’s a really huge and diverse group of people. The word gets the point across, that’s all that matters. If you want to use a phrase like “non-technologically inclined” or something like that, it actually sounds worse like I’m looking down on them. At least normie is self depreciating, which is more acceptable.
I just see the term to mean the opposite of specialist, or someone who is passionate about the topic.
In internet terms, it generally means not a geek.
It’s a good distinction, because for geeks, internet is something inherently interesting on a technological and philosophical level. For, well, normies, it’s just an appliance they don’t need to know much about.
Similarly if you go to a car show but don’t really know shit about cars other than they have 4 wheels, you’re a normie in that environment. Your requirements on what a car should be like, are fundamentally different from someone who likes to tweak and tinker.
I wish the term could just mean that without any negative connotations, because I don’t see anything wrong with that distinction.
Ed/add: Nobody can know everything about every topic, so everyone is a normie in some category. Usually without realising it. So that’s just it. Not necessarily an insult, and doesn’t even make much sense as one, I think.
i feel some people use it derogatorily but i think of it as more “your average person”, in this context that would be people used to the mainstream networks and haven’t tried anything better
i try to avoid saying normies because the word kind of has a negative connotation even though some people don’t use it maliciously
The cycle of social tech becoming mainstream and conversational norms being dragged down to a least common denominator predates modern social media. The earliest example I can think of is Usenet (newsgroups):
During the 1980s and early 1990s, Usenet and the Internet were generally the domain of dedicated computer professionals and hobbyists; new users joined slowly, in small numbers, and observed and learned the social conventions of online interaction without having much of an impact on the experienced users. The only exception to this was September of every year, when large numbers of first-year college students gained access to the Internet and Usenet through their universities. These large groups of new users who had not yet learned online etiquette created a nuisance for the experienced users, who came to dread September every year. Once ISPs like AOL made Internet access widely available for home users, a continuous influx of new users began, which continued through to 2015 according to Jason Koebler, making it feel like it is always “September” to the more experienced users.
It’s the same cycle. Social tech starts off being used by a smaller number of technically inclined people. Communities are smaller and normalized civility is more commonplace. Peer pressure holds people to those norms. Once a social tech balloons from mainstream interest, the norms (or zeitgeist if you prefer) shift toward the incoming population because they outnumber the early population and exert more peer pressure. The new norms become a compromise between the norms of the incoming mob and what the community moderators are willing/able to enforce.
It’s tempting to put a label on the incoming demographic and use it in a derogatory way, but removing the label from the equation doesn’t change the source of unhappiness; the memory of what once was and the knowledge that it can’t last when cultural dilution sets in.
(no, I’m not providing any solutions to the problem, this is just rambling that might provide more insightful people with a starting point)
Normies just means people who aren’t in the in group and to me means we are the weird ones, exclusive group or have uncommon interests or knowledge.
It is important to be self aware that in the context of the fediverse and meme culture things you are use to are weird, different, and sometimes confusing. Perfect example has been the beans and the 3 day poop thing. Normal people don’t get and will think it is weird if they know nothing about the trend. Another example is I am a rock climber if I reference a jug or a sloper it means nothing to normies or people unaware of the lingo. So a jug joke isn’t something other people get
I really dislike that term, it makes me cringe to be considered part of a group that uses it unironically. That’s 4chan speech, let’s keep it in that cesspool.
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I think that context is really important. I’ve mostly seen this term used by neurodivergent people when expressing frustration with not being understood by the general populace. Also, these conversations were usually in spaces created by and for neurodivergent people, so the use of normie to indicate everyone else makes sense to me. In that context, it always comes across as kind of self-deprecating to me, an acknowledgement that the person speaking isn’t considered normal because of their condition.
Based on the context you’ve described, I’m not surprised you don’t like the term. If that was were I first encountered it I wouldn’t like it either.
Often times the only reason people use certain trigger words is because they know they are trigger words. The more you reveal your triggers, the more some people will use them.
It’s not “triggering” it’s stupid.
Saying something is stupid doesn’t mean you’re upset.
This is something most people figure out before they get their drivers license
I have seen the word normie used in almost exclusively sarcastic or tongue in cheek contexts.
I’ve only really seen it in two contexts. Mainly “don’t scare the normies”, which was largely the advice given to my larp communities to not freak out people in real life with their hobby stuff, and probably also applies to subcultures like furries and such. And secondarily as self-deprecating. I’m a Facebook meme group “Normie Has-Beens” tied to the page “Stale Memes for Normie Has-Beens”, and it’s certainly not people who consider themselves normal.
The internet has a way of taking things that are used sarcastically and removing every bit of irony. The Flat Earth Society, PCMR, and The Donald subreddit all started out as making fun of the people that are now 100% unironically part of very thriving (and toxic to differing levels) communities.
I think that will almost certainly happen to the word normie, if it hasn’t already.
This post and many of the comments should make it abundantly clear folks have an entirely different experience with the word. I’m not sure what you’re trying to add to the conversation other than to try and claim everyone else doesn’t have valid concerns.
OP asked for my thoughts, I gave my thoughts. I’m sorry you think my experience invalidates yours.
Thoughts can still be provided in a useful fashion without trying to invalidate everyone else’s opinion.
Edit: I didn’t say your experience invalidated anything. Your choice of words did.
Normie is a term used in many circles, not exclusively fediverse. I don’t think it’s a slur, as the people who use it aren’t inciting violence or enacting discriminatory pricing or whatever. It’s like calling a person boring.
A slur always tells you more about the person who uses it than about the person they’re referring to.
It really does say a lot when the dreaded other that they want to avoid is someone who is normal.
To be completely blunt about it, if someone uses “normie” seriously, I expect they also think they’re oppressed by age-of-consent laws and possibly also laws against rape. At the very least, they don’t own a TV because there aren’t enough lolis on basic cable.
removed by mod
It makes you an awesome ally. 👍
if terf isn’t a slur, Normie isn’t either. people seem to get irrationally upset about the word normal. normal is a well defined word, the same way cis is but it seems one group is fine with one whilst the other isn’t.
instead of focusing on labels and how much they upset you (I don’t mean who I am replying to), focus on understanding and respecting people’s differences, regardless of terminology.
TERF isn’t a slur, it’s an accurate descriptor.
Terfs are trans exclusionary. Terfs are on the borders of feminist thought, making them radical (and not in the cool way).
They only want it to be a slur so they aren’t accurately described as what they are.
Actually I think it is quite a stretch to call them feminists in any way. 99% of the time they ally with the far right and many of their leaders advocate against things like contraception and healthcare for women
Thats more of the term being overused. Only a vanishing small number of people are terfs.
Yeah but “Radical”… TERFS ain’t radical, nor bodacious nor totally tubular dude!
Accept everyone, that’s the TMNT way!
Ain’t that the truth.
I also read the comment about the racist uncle, it was a discussion of the different kind of people facebook (I won’t call it meta) will be going to expose us when they join the fediverse. The person who post it wasn’t attacking the “normies”.
About the term “normie” isn’t necessary an insult or just a person who isn’t up with technology, but instead someone who enjoy more basic things. Is OK to be a normie if that’s makes you happy.
I don’t get why is OK for them to call us “nerds” (most of the times in a not sarcastic manner) but not for is to call them “normies” (in a sarcastic manner).
Most of the times that we invite a “normie” to the fediverse they reject us, “I don’t like that”, “facebook is better”, " that’s for nerds" they say, and that happens also with music, books, even food, they are just comfortable with how things are and that’s OK.
It isn’t that we are gatekeeping, but instead that they don’t want to join us.
To me how you are talking about this is kind of exactly my point. The “normie” you are describing just sounds like an asshole and I think that’s the negative connotation and exclusion I’m talking about.
What would you categorize me as? I surf, skate, lift weights, travel, was in a fraternity at a major university, have a beautiful wife and live in suburbia in California close to the beach, started my career in finance and sales (not anymore though). On the flip side, I have ADHD, I have a masters in pharmaceutical sciences, I work with a team of software engineers, I game, tinker with my PC, I read scientific journals on particle physics and a ton of sci-fi and fantasy, I read tech blogs every day, I love the fediverse, etc.
See what I’m getting at? Like it is totally creating an unnecessary and unhelpful division in my eyes.
That you think this isn’t condescending or portraying exactly what the poster was talking about is a bit sad. Self awareness is extremely important.
nah, you’re right
the term always gives me images of channer culture; like it reminds me when the internet as a whole thought that 4chan and its ilk were cool and elite for being shitty for “lulz”
it needs to be retired
That’s where it came from. Back in the day when everyone on 4chan was some type of “fag”:
-Newfag - new users
-Oldfag - old users
-Normalfag - normally-adjusted human being not on teh interwebz, later became shortened to “normie”
Doesn’t “normie” come from /b/? I don’t think I saw it used anywhere else until shitposting subs like /r/dankmemes started calling who don’t use memes correctly normies
Uh … I was in circles that used words like “norms” and “normals” and, yes, “normies” before the Internet was a “thing”. SF fandom of the '70s was easily as nerdy and toxic as are any of today’s Internet circle jerks.
Sorry, Kiddies1, but very little of what you do is new. Sometimes the techniques are new (because technology happened) but humans have been human for, well, as long as humans have existed.
1 If you’re finding this word offensive, you might want to take a long, hard look at how you use words like the one that triggered this thread before the inevitable downvoting.
“Normie” is one of the few words that I cringe over everytime I read it. I consider myself to be in, or adjacent to, the group of people that would use that word, since I am tech affinitive and that group is usually the one that uses it. But I cringe everytime I see it used unironically because I don’t want non-tech affinitive (or lesser affinitive) people to lump every person that has something to do with IT or similar into the group of people they don’t want nothing to do with because they’re always condescending towards them.
It’s literally like as if you’re saying “Did you know that I have an IQ of 150?”.
You’re not gatekeeping anyone out of your life by using that word, you’re gatekeeping yourself out of every “normal” persons life by using that word.
I 100% agree that word is cringe and I’m totally into the fediverse for the long haul, but we have to address the pachyderm in the room: The word “Fediverse” is just as cringe.
I, … I’m sorry. I can read it in a document, but the second a human being types it, I can’t take it seriously. I don’t care if folks want to shorten it to something like the FI (Federated Instances). Yes, there are other uses of the word “federate”, but it immediately sounds like a federal intraweb domain or a group of Star Trek policy makers.
“Fediverse” is “netizen 2.0.”
“Fediverse” is “cruising on the information superhighway Pro.”
Please tell me I’m not alone in thinking this.
You’re not alone, no. “Fediverse” is almost, but not quite, as silly a term as “Metaverse”.
This makes a lot of sense! And I would argue if you just met me you would 1000% put me in the normie category. Buuut if you got to know me you would come to find out I’m a goofy uber nerd who works with a bunch of software engineers and loves technology and gaming and reading scientific journals on particle physics.
I quite frankly don’t want to be in either group because the entire concept of normie vs not normie is kind of silly in my opinion.
I don’t know, you have a better word than that? If you want to refer to everyone from your coworkers to the supermarket cashier to your grandma, that’s a really huge and diverse group of people. The word gets the point across, that’s all that matters. If you want to use a phrase like “non-technologically inclined” or something like that, it actually sounds worse like I’m looking down on them. At least normie is self depreciating, which is more acceptable.
I’ve always assumed that people who use “normie” in their language are probably teenagers with superiority complex.
I just see the term to mean the opposite of specialist, or someone who is passionate about the topic.
In internet terms, it generally means not a geek.
It’s a good distinction, because for geeks, internet is something inherently interesting on a technological and philosophical level. For, well, normies, it’s just an appliance they don’t need to know much about.
Similarly if you go to a car show but don’t really know shit about cars other than they have 4 wheels, you’re a normie in that environment. Your requirements on what a car should be like, are fundamentally different from someone who likes to tweak and tinker.
I wish the term could just mean that without any negative connotations, because I don’t see anything wrong with that distinction.
Ed/add: Nobody can know everything about every topic, so everyone is a normie in some category. Usually without realising it. So that’s just it. Not necessarily an insult, and doesn’t even make much sense as one, I think.
i feel some people use it derogatorily but i think of it as more “your average person”, in this context that would be people used to the mainstream networks and haven’t tried anything better
i try to avoid saying normies because the word kind of has a negative connotation even though some people don’t use it maliciously
The cycle of social tech becoming mainstream and conversational norms being dragged down to a least common denominator predates modern social media. The earliest example I can think of is Usenet (newsgroups):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
It’s the same cycle. Social tech starts off being used by a smaller number of technically inclined people. Communities are smaller and normalized civility is more commonplace. Peer pressure holds people to those norms. Once a social tech balloons from mainstream interest, the norms (or zeitgeist if you prefer) shift toward the incoming population because they outnumber the early population and exert more peer pressure. The new norms become a compromise between the norms of the incoming mob and what the community moderators are willing/able to enforce.
It’s tempting to put a label on the incoming demographic and use it in a derogatory way, but removing the label from the equation doesn’t change the source of unhappiness; the memory of what once was and the knowledge that it can’t last when cultural dilution sets in.
(no, I’m not providing any solutions to the problem, this is just rambling that might provide more insightful people with a starting point)
Normies just means people who aren’t in the in group and to me means we are the weird ones, exclusive group or have uncommon interests or knowledge.
It is important to be self aware that in the context of the fediverse and meme culture things you are use to are weird, different, and sometimes confusing. Perfect example has been the beans and the 3 day poop thing. Normal people don’t get and will think it is weird if they know nothing about the trend. Another example is I am a rock climber if I reference a jug or a sloper it means nothing to normies or people unaware of the lingo. So a jug joke isn’t something other people get
I really dislike that term, it makes me cringe to be considered part of a group that uses it unironically. That’s 4chan speech, let’s keep it in that cesspool.