Thank you Nome @NomedaBarbarian
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@NomedaBarbarian on Twitter:
Thinking about how I’ve been lied to as an #ADHD person about what habits are.
That apparently is not what neurotypical folks get to experience.
Habits are things that they do without thinking.
They don’t have to decide to do them. They don’t have to remember to do them. Things just happen, automatically, because they’ve done them enough for that system to engage and make them automatic.
That system…which I lack.
Every single time I have brushed my teeth, it’s been an active choice. I’ve had to devote thought and attention to it. It’s not a routine, it’s not a habit, it’s something that I know is good to do, and hopefully I can remember to do it.
Every single time I exercise, or floss, or pay my rent, or drink water, or say “bless you” when someone sneezes,
It’s because I’ve had to actively and consciously engage the protocol.
It never gets easier.
Just more familiar.
It’s part of my struggle with my weight–exercise never becomes a habit, and every single time I do it, it is exactly as hard as the first time. It takes exactly as much willpower & thought.
I got lied to about how it would just “turn into a habit”. And blamed, when it didn’t.
Drinking water isn’t a habit. Feeding myself isn’t a habit. Bathing isn’t a habit.
I spend so much more energy, so much more time, so much more labor on just managing to maintain my fucking meat suit.
And now you want me to ALSO do taxes?
ON TIME?
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This has me paranoid like a dive into WebMD.
Don’t because this whole thing is fucking stupid. Everyone has to stop and think about brushing teeth. There is no autopilot mode that lets people take care of simple tasks without even thinking about it.
If you’re finding it difficult to brush your teeth, you’re probably depressed, not necessarily ADHD.
Thanks, doc! Send me the bill for your consultation. 👍🏼
do you drive a car? ride a bike? walk? those are habits.
I think there might be an axis here that is different than ADHD.
I certainly don’t have ADHD, but I don’t have any habits (outside of muscle memory, walking, breathing, etc) that works the way OP describes.
I brush my teeth because I think I should. A ‘habit to me’ is just that ‘situation X reminds me to do thing Y’.
Neurotypical here, as far as I know.
No, there is nothing about brushing my teeth that’s automatic. At some point during the evening I usually notice fuzzy-feeling teeth, or as I’m nodding off while reading my book will think “oh no, I never brushed my teeth…” There is always some small element of discipline to getting up and doing the thing. But I can usually remember without having to set an alarm or post a sticky note, if that meets your definition of “habit”.
Exercise is brutal and IMO, that never gets easier, either. In contrast, I generally have an easier time with mental discipline & focus compared to physical tasks.
Strangely enough, as a (mostly) white Millennial woman, the majority of my peers now claim to have adult-onset/adult-diagnosed ADHD. Maybe this is an accurate diagnosis for some. And even if it’s an exaggeration in other cases, who cares, as long as the coping strategies or medication is improving someone’s quality of life.
What’s sad to me, though, is when the diagnosis becomes an all-consuming identity and an excuse to stop trying altogether, a way to shut out the rest of the world. These women I know who excelled in school and work or had creative hobbies and traveled the world, now they just post mental health memes all day and joke about how it’s impossible to get out of bed. And if anyone suggests maybe they TRY getting out of bed and see how it feels to participate in X, Y, Z activity like we used to, then come the accusations that we’re clueless NTs who will never understand what it’s like to struggle.
And that’s just not true. NTs also work hard and struggle at times…that’s life. So let’s just make sure all these diagnoses are helping and working FOR us rather than AGAINST us. And sometimes forgetting to brush your teeth is just … forgetting to brush your teeth.
ADHD and depression aren’t mutually exclusive. What you and I might struggle with on a Tuesday might be the last straw for another person.
Most people in real life who know me have almost no clue that I’m diagnosed with ADHD. I’m similar to the other person who responded to you, in the sense that no one bothered to teach me the coping skills I needed when I was younger. I’ll be honest with you, people’s attitudes towards it led me down a pretty dark path. I got fed up with random people assuming that they knew more about my diagnosis than my doctor did. I got tired of listening to people who had never even been around someone with ADHD tell me that I “wasn’t trying hard enough” or that I “didn’t try their family cure”. So, nearly no one knows anymore. It can be isolating.
I could have used my experiences as an excuse to be a judgemental, angry person, but I decided that I was better than that. Instead, now I try to help others in my life with the same or similar conditions. Sometimes, just being a little more emotionally open with people who are struggling can do wonders for them.
If you were having the worst time of your life, you probably wouldn’t want to listen to random people who are grumpy with you, right? You’re probably going to go for the people who will actually hear what you have to say, even if they can’t offer an instant fix.
What I’m getting at, is sometimes people just want to be heard. They aren’t necessarily looking for someone to tell them what they’re doing wrong. Sometimes they’re just looking for “oh man, I have that problem too!” or a “that sucks, I’m sorry to hear that”. Mental health is easier when you don’t feel alone.
If I don’t feel up to the task, I just scroll. Who am I to tell someone I don’t know that they aren’t trying hard enough? That’s up to that person, the people who love them, and their doctor, imo.
For the rare people who do use it as an excuse, you kind of have to wonder what else might be going on in their head. A lot of people are struggling. Please remember that correlation isn’t always causation. Some people will milk everything that they can to get by easier, so it’s not ADHD specific. For example, people like “Frank” from the show “Shameless”.
On the surface, I probably look like the person you’re describing, but no one knew I had an ADHD diagnosis that went ignored in childhood. No one knew how much I was masking every day. It’s harder now because I have to make my own meals, clean my house, etc. All the things I didn’t have to do as a kid. I got to learn, which I loved (my special interest is research) and do various activities I enjoyed, even if it was exhausting. Now, I’m stuck doing all the things I was never taught by my family, with no structure, just trying to survive. Of course it’s harder than when I was a kid. Those memes help me feel valid and seen, something my family were never willing to do, but at least now I have friends that get it.
There’s so much trauma that happens from neurodivergence being ignored in childhood, and that takes time to process. I spend a lot of my days crying over all the times I wasn’t allowed to cry growing up, processing things in therapy, etc. I literally can’t force myself to enjoy life without first having the needed tools. It’s sad that I can’t do what I used to, but I’m slowly getting there. Kindness and patience are what are needed most, when that’s not something I was given as a child.
All this to say, you never know what’s below the surface.
I have alarms. I feel this in my core though. I have very strict routines that I follow, but they sure as fuck aren’t habbit’s I have to watch the clock and get extremely anxious around the time I know I need to do things, all.the.things.
I think everybody’s different. I am autistic but don’t have ADHD. Showering is not a habit, but I have partially managed to turn brushing my teeth into one. I know that for some people, brushing teeth happens without much thought— as long as it’s part of an ordered routine, I think.
I agree with your thionking, everyone is different and unique. I’m happy to hear you’ve found some basic things that work for you, good job! I do have very good routines, but at no point have they become “habit”.
Lol at expecting me to read those when you’ve somehow managed to screenshot them at an angle.
There was a note in the beginning of the text saying the transcription was below, but it may have been easy to miss, so I have edited the post for clarity. Thank you for letting me know.
The images don’t show up at an angle for me and no one else has mentioned it, so I’m not sure what’s going on there.
Sorry I thought you’d done it deliberately as a subtle joke. Are you saying that you don’t see that the first image is slightly slanted and the third one is slanted the other way?
OH MY GOD. I see it now. How AWFUL. I stared at it for a long time too to make the transcription and never noticed. I’m so sorry.
Haha, no it’s all good, and you making the transcription was very thoughtful, but now you’ve seen it you’ll never be able to unsee it.
As an autistic person, habits are integral to my existence. I hate it when my schedule gets crazy, unless I very specifically plan for it. However, my husband who has ADHD, the above seems true. As a simple example: I always leave my stuff like keys, lunchbox, and headphones in the exact same spot when I get home from work. On the other hand, I spent 10 minutes this morning trying to find where my husband put the potato chips that I was planning on taking for lunch. Instead of being in the kitchen, they were in the living room(??!!) cos he moved them there to “get them out of the way.”
I’m very structured in the way I work; he needs to be constantly redirected to stay on task. I have boundless attention to fiddly, very specific high-attention things (I do a lot of fiber crafts such as knitting and crocheting lace) for HOURS, to quote Neal Stephenson, “I have attention surplus disorder.” He can’t work on anything longer than 15 minutes.
It used to drive me crazy, but now I’ve realized that’s just how his brain works, and we just work around it. On the other hand, he keeps makes me take breaks and pace myself (which I don’t usually do), and I help him be more efficient. It’s a pretty good system.
I’m AuDHD. I need my keys and things in the same spot, but I also struggle to remember to actually put them there. That’s the missing part of the habit for me. I have to consciously think “put them here” every time or future me will have a meltdown when they can’t find what should be there.
I do not have a proper autism diagnosis as I stopped after the initial screening (I am suspected to be though), but my existence is held together by habits.
Some of these habits are pure preference, such as the first tea I drink in a day will have some honey added to it. Other habits I have conditioned myself into doing to the point where it feels wrong not to do them, such as scooping the litterbox every day. I also do the thing where everything has a fixed spot or order, and I even have a checklist in the morning to see that I have gathered and done everything I need to leave for work.
The real challenge is making a difficult habit stick, or when something about my day changes. For example, in the morning on weekdays I brush my teeth as it is part of getting ready for work, but on weekends it’s not in the order of things that I execute so it gets forgotten about. I might remember and then do it, or I might not. I will however always still brush them in the evening because it’s in my evening routine. The difference here is that it is ok to maybe not do it then, but if I arrived at work with unbrushed teeth I’d be mortified and stressing all day…
The “don’t break the chain” method is good for difficult habits but I need to use something like a todo list to keep reminding me. I also struggled with tasks like doing the dishes for years because I absolutely hated the task. It’s only after consistently doing them every time that eventually it got to a turning point where I was excited to get those stupid dishes over with so I could feel good about having it done. However despite that some things just never stick. Or I will not start them. Exercise for example.
My partner has remarked it is a bit peculiar I do things always the same, but he has seen the advantage in that I am always prepared for everything. However while he can brush off having forgotten something, it can impact me greatly. It’s been suggested to me I should get ADHD screening (and finish the autism one) because I do am distracted, I can start a routine task and never finish it because I got sidetracked and it somehow auto-completed in my brain. But at the same time I think I very much use habits and routines to deal with the fact that it keeps anxiety under control for me. Control as a whole makes me feel safe. But it does come at a cost. Not everyone likes how I am, which is fair, because it can overflow from me wanting to control my own stuff to me demanding control over others.
Maintain your meat suit?! Get the fuck outta here. You think everyone doesn’t need to remember oh yeah gotta brush my teeth, or forget now and then? And yeah taxes suck for everyone. Life is hard, who knew. Get over yourself.
Aw, is compassion to “weak” for you, puppy? Who hurt you? Does lashing out feel better than a good cry? Does it really?
We can indeed “get the fuck out of here.” But you’re going to have to perform a few tasks for us to do that.
Done. After following these three steps, none of our posts will show up on your “all” feed or on your “local” feed. Then you won’t have to see this particular group of people complaining about how hard life is.
Done, thanks. I’ll use my meat suit to do just that.
As someone who thinks he has ADHD and not Bipolar is now confused after reading this. I feel like I have habits but I’m like half way in half way out on this. Feel like I’m straddling the fence.
Oh. Manic Depressive? ADHD make sense sometimes? Of fucking course. I’m smart, compassionate, wise, and PERFECT.
Half the time.
Then I realize how much of a peice of shit I was when I KNEW I was like that.
Not dismissing OPs issues, but you feel like you relate because SOMETIMES you do.
I fucking hate my brain.
I most recently got diagnosed. Had no idea I went into mania until the doc said so. I’m no Kanye west but I have my moments.
I think both the duration and intensity are important. I’ve seen ADHDers online describing their brief spurts of focus and productivity as the “Hour of Power”
Which is a bit of a misnomer. I know we’re all time blind and it feels like fifteen minutes, but that spurt can occasionally go four or five hours.
Alternately, we can have a few slightly productive weeks where everything is easier. I’m undiagnosed, pretty sure I’m ADHD, but I do occasionally have two-week productive cycles. Getting up early, completing tasks, maintaining a routine involving eating, exercising, and showering.
And then when it all comes crashing down, I never do any of those things on time again (or at least until years later, when stress put me in another two-week cycle).
Manic episodes, on the other hand, regularly last over a week at full intensity. From what I hear, the person feels like a god while the episode is going on. They make plans that are downright hubristic, because literally nothing feels insurmountable to them.
Can an ADHD person have two weeks of suddenly being able to maintain routines? Yeah. Sure. Two hours of nothing seeming impossible? Absolutely. But unless the two are combined, it’s not a manic episode.
I’ve been struggling my entire life with focus, completing things, remembering basic shit, etc (I can go more in depth if needed) but I am frustrated DAILY with myself. Did you see a psychiatrist? If so, did they specializes in adhd or manic depression or just a normal psychiatrist? Not sure where tonstart and if it’s even worth me going. I’m always paranoid about if I’m being a hypochondriac and not wanting to waste the doctor’s/medical staff’s time. Sorry for the dumb question. I’ve never brought this stuff up with my primary care because it seems…normal? Idk how to explain exactly how I feel.
I saw someone in another thread on ADHD say there is a test you can take to give you at least a basic idea. Of course we all exhibit a lot of neurodivergent characteristics because we’re human and "normal"s a social construct, but it could be a start!
So as a NT that is only recently thinking about how ND I might be, what’s striking about this to me is that no only do I not have or form any “automatic” habits, but I think my lack of such or my lack of ability to form them has formed a deep aspect of my personality.
Like, I don’t want to do anything “automatically”, and any kind of environment or culture or expectation that relies on “just doing things automatically” is something I not only dismiss as unappealing and even “bad” but something I even get suspicious about and about the kinds of people that get into that. Like, however productive and helpful it is, I honestly think I’ve developed an unconscious distrust of people that simply “do things automatically” on the grounds that they’re not plugged in enough to values and purposes and the “why this should be done”.
Of course, maybe I’ve got a point there. Though maybe virtue doesn’t play a role when it comes to the dishes. My point though is that I’m pretty sure I’ve incorporated this as a given and allowed it to inform my worldview, so I guess that’s fun.
This is a different voice. This is why I like the internet. No sarcasm.
Ditto and appreciated.
A fellow NT (as in undiagnosed, but have some ND traits) here with a very similar mindset. I love thinking about why I do what I do, I love having a reason to the way I do stuff and I love having an informed decision process. But I find that thinking about stuff equal caring about them, at least caring about them more than necessary. And don’t you wish to not care as much all the time?
I’ll put aside things like how to raise the kids or work decisions (even if I think about them more than the average person). I don’t like to care so much about how the dishwasher is loaded, or the optimal placement of cups in the cupboard. At least not always and leaving things alone is also a mental decision which requires some effort.
To be clear, I’d rather be the way I am. Just wandering how other people handle it.
…fuck
Fuck indeed.
Uh… No. This suggests that NTs act like drones, without any thought. Like they’re sitting on the sofa, then they just get up, wander to the bathroom, brush their teeth, then get into bed and think “wow how did I get here hahaha what a habit, eh?”
ADHD is many things but it ain’t this.
ACTIVATE DENTAL PROTOCOL
ERROR: BED MODE ALREADY ACTIVE. UNABLE TO ACTIVATE DENTAL PROTOCOL.
thank you. we really really need more of this. thank you.
For me it is this. When I was married he didn’t understand when I would request reminders to go to the bathroom, shower, eat, do laundry. He laughed. He thought I had dementia.
Nope just adhd with a swiss cheese memory.
I’m not neurotipical, but I’m pretty sure ADHD isn’t in the mix of whatever I have. The situation you described occures to me on a regular basis
I think there’s this myth of “the neurotypical”… It’s a generic point on a scale that represents the most significant overlap, not any specific person. I genuinely believe no one is “neurotypical”, rather some tend towards it and others further away. That’s the spectrum. Plus some people might be closer to NT with some things but much further away with others.
For example, I have a pretty good degree of focus, I remember things pretty well, but I struggle to organise my thoughts and can’t bear to touch other people or certain textures. I’m sure everyone is a bit like this. Some people more so, some people less.
And that isn’t to minimise that there are people out there who really struggle to fit into the “best fit” of Neurotypical-aimed social design.
So why the need to create a mythical group of “Neurotypical”? Is it a need to define ourselves in opposition? Is it to make ourselves feel more unique? Is it a perverse form of gatekeeping?
The upshot is, that until we move towards realising that individuals have individual needs and requirements we aren’t going to make substantial progress and describing (and prescribing) otherness only seeks to alienate folk that might otherwise help.
People aren’t neurotypical… Systems are. I think that’s what I meant to say.
It’s just the ever-present need to feel unique. I feel like everyone goes through it.
As we grow up we start to notice differences between ourselves and the average person. We rationalize this by assuming we’re unique, when really we just spend a lot more time thinking about our own differences than we do thinking about other people’s.
The reason that sonder evokes such a strange feeling when it happens is because we’re usually not fully aware of the complexity of the people around us to the same degree as our own. We just pile those around us together into the category of “normal” people, while at the same time dissecting our own features to find every irregularity.
From there, we feel the need to explain the differences, usually gaining a sense of superiority, like the common “not like the other girls” sentiment, or we feel ostracized and seek to find like-minded communities to join, such as the neurodivergant groups in this case.
I’m not saying this person isn’t unusual in some significant way - I’m sure they are somehow - but this understanding of how habits work is pretty normal.
Same principle behind the “Everybody is perfect but me in Facebook” misperception - ones sees a cultivated image of others there which one compares with the intimatelly familiar image (with all the warts) one has of oneself and, well, a carefully cultivated image is almost always superior to a nothing hidden one unless you’ve gotten to a point were you actually value people’s quirks more than flat, tasteless, always-the-same “perfection” and/or can read beyond peoples’ masks (things are a lot my interesting when you ask yourself “Why has this person felt the need to post this?”)
This is then amped up by certain personality traits which are stronger at certain stages of one’s life (i.e. the natural insecurities of youth) which fill the “missing pieces” in other people’s life, drives and intentions with an overly positive fantasy rather than a realistic one (which would roughly be “Everybody fucks up at times. Everybody has quirks. Lots of energy spent on managing appearance means the rest of a persona is likely underdeveloped”).
It doesn’t help that the current society of celebrity-celebration, ubiquitous-marketing and creating-emotion-to-induce-action is almost entirelly anchored on fakeness: we’re constantly faced with carefully-crafted unachievable fantasy examples of what we are told we should aim for (normally with a “buy this to be more like that” message) and that always leaks something, even if just an uncomfortable pressure.
This is far from being just a problem for those who are not neurotypical, though those who for one reason or other are “more aware of the ticking of their internal clockworks” probably spot better that there are pushes and pulls (or at least attemptes at it) from the outside even if they can’t quite track it down.
This is such a nice way of saying it lol
Isn’t it? That’s the sort of thing that helps.
99% of people calling themselves “neurotypical” are self-diagnosed.
You raise a good point. None of us have had a perfect childhood, nor is it possible to be both perfect and human. Every person is different, and everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.
I think that more people need to be kinder to everyone. You never know what someone has gone through, or what they are going through. Almost everyone is struggling is one way or another. We are all human.
It would be bloody fantastic if the bad stigmas stopped from both sides. Working together on this stuff is the only way to make it easier for us all.
ND is the new introverted.
Only introverts think deeply, get anxious, or enjoy academic pursuits. Do you have a counterexample? Oh, well that person just doesn’t know they’re an introvert, so the pattern still holds!
Same with ND/NT. Nobody is neurotypical according to this definition because everyone has something they struggle with or are quirky about.
Then how do you explain that one Talking Heads song?
Not sure how meta your comment is supposed to be beyond “how did I get here?,” but ironically, David Byrne is on the spectrum.
They should do what I do and get so stressed with other stuff that I hyperfocused on doing my taxed one night at 1AM while anxiously procrastinating something else
I haven’t been fully tested but my doctor agrees it is likely I have ADHD and this is all new to me, grain of salt.
I definitely do things without thinking. Drinking, snacking, vaping, reaching for phone just because my hands need to be busy. Mindless stuff.
As for what I think most neurotypical people consider habits I have maybe one that is somewhat automatic for me and that is I ALWAYS do my skincare and teeth before bed. But part of that is because that routine is really good sleep hygiene. Like it is still a decision, still a bit of a chore, but it would feel VERY wrong and off if I didn’t do it.
Then um let’s see I’ve been taking the same medication at the same time for over 15 years now and I still need an alarm on my phone and I have still forgotten to take it if I don’t take it that very second. At least most of the time later in the day I suddenly remember…
Your doctor diagnosed you. No further testing needed IMHO, because you aren’t being different for “cool points”. Let the treatment begin.
Like looking in a goddamn mirror. Yeah, if I don’t do it THAT VERY SECOND, the alarm was worthless. I bought these because I can’t remember even an hour later if I took my pill or not. I also have to do it that very second or it’s worthless.
Edit to add: the old person pill case is a better product than the switch thing I posted. I’ve used both and I’m going back to the pill case.
I got the “old person” pill case with a compartment for each day. That helps more than I expected.
I’m going back to the pill case. Thanks for reminding me they exist.
Do you ever forget to refill it? Like what about if you take middle of day, and you’re not home? That’s why I haven’t bought one yet (and tbh my alarm has been good, I almost always listen to it lol)
And I’ve seen some cute ones! Like look like citrus fruit slices
I’ve forgotten anything that can be forgotten, but for the most part, if I grab it and it’s empty, I fill them all up. Oh, and I have an alarm set too. I do both. I got the case, or rather my wife got it for me, so I know if I listened to the alarm or not.
I take my meds at home but I also bought like four of them so when I have the executive function to fill them I do it and I’m sorted for four weeks!
Aw thank you! Yup totally worthless if you don’t obey the alarm lol. I have totally dumped and counted pills before
I was in my mid 30’s when I was diagnosed with ADHD. Actually my twin daughter’s ADHD doctor asked me at one of their appointments if I had ever been tested/ seen about it. I was kinda confused since I didn’t think at the time I had it. Once I get tested and then started on ADHD meds… my whole life of struggles became clear. I had struggled with anxiety and depression from middle school on and was on two-three meds for that. Even then I still struggled with anxiety and panic.
Once started on ADHD meds, no longer needed my anxiety or depression meds. My doc said my ADHD presented with that. So that was a bonus!
I can’t stay focused, I “spin in circles” as I call it. Where my brain is like “boot looping” basically. I can’t start all the projects/ tasks I know I need/want to do… so I literally… SPIN. I get super frustrated with unfinished tasks and easily get distracted with something new.
Ie; folding laundry… start putting them away and see I need to empty the trash in the bathroom, then, see the dishes need doing so Ofc I start washing them…and then one of my daughters starts talking to me and I’m off doing something else for them. End result? Bullshit. Laundry not done, dishes half assed… kid’s task… well that’s completely done cause I have them there in front of me making sure it’s done… oh and trash IS emptied but I lost the trash can somewhere. Probably where the laundry is.
That is a typical day. I also am so “busy” all day I don’t eat till right when I’m sitting down for the first time all day and then I graze all evening long till bedtime…
Relatable
halfrommalcolminthemiddle.gif
The shame of the incomplete task. Or I restarted it several times, got lost, and fully fucked it.