Sure, but they at least pretend to care. When Google steals my data, they pretend to not have it. When China has my data, literally anybody can have my data.
Sure, but there’s a difference between having the potential to do something, and actively doing it. I’m aware the FBI/CIA can get my data from Google if they want it, but something would have to trigger them into wanting to investigate me. With a Chinese company there is no “if”, all of the data goes straight to the CCP. Tencent, the bloated multimedia company, even had a moment of ironic hypocrisy where they didn’t want to give away all of their users’ data.
This is what people miss. Furthermore, it’s reasonable not to want an enemy state to have access to information relating to a country’s citizens. Yes, the US has done. Yes, it was wrong. Yes, they are getting a taste of their own medicine. That’s why they’re worried about it. They know how badly that information can be used.
Furthermore, it is clear the Chinese government has an influence over app contents. It is easy for them to use it to shape the opinions of their userbase depending on the country.
At least in theory they have to get a warrant, although there are plenty of examples of tech companies handing over information without one. They definitely have access to all the same information if they really want it though.
Edit: In hindsight I think I may have misinterpreted how that post was intended. American government agencies do have a harder time getting access to TikTok’s information, although at least for US users TikTok has separate servers that make it possible for them to do so.
I remember articles in the early 00s about how China wouldn’t allow Google to operate there and a big deal was made about “the great firewall of China” and how it was all about censorship, but now that China has an influential internet service, US congress is demanding they hand over ownership of US operations to a US company.
Mass media are at their core propaganda tools. Their mission is to further the agendas of whoever finances them, they are not driven by the pursuit of truth, justice or anything related such as the defense of privacy.
TikTok isn’t outside of that jurisdiction, they are operating in places like the US. If they violate privacy laws, you remove them from accessing that market
politicians are actively talking about banning tiktok. let me know when they do the same for twitter, instagram, reddit, facebook, tinder, youtube, google, amazon, and every other US site that does the exact same snooping that tiktok does. THEN we can say “both are bad”.
I think you’ve got it backwards. If we can’t acknowledge that both are bad before talking about banning them, then what justification do we have for banning them?
Often Americans point to china as big bad for shit America is actively doing as well, while pretending America is so great. They both fucking suck. They both want to be the major super power and to do so they both do horrible shit to their own people, people in other countries, entire other countries, both extremely capitalistic, etc.
Certainly hope you’re not getting the impression that I’m speaking in favor of China. I’m more in favor of equal outrage over invasions of privacy from all parties, foreign and domestic.
Whataboutism is a classic way to invalidate an argument without having to disagree with it directly. You’re engaging in that purposefully or not. If you really agree that both are bad why would people shitting on TikTok upset you at all?
America would lose all standing in global politics and the global economy if they invaded Canada without very strong reason. If the US started a war with China tomorrow, half the world, Canada included, would either do nothing or join them.
… And when they are spying, and see something they don’t like, they CAN come for me. Canadian government won’t stop them.
I don’t want a shitty country like America to spy on me. Sorry. America is not as great as Americans act like it is.
Like I’ve said, I want no one to spy on me. But if I had to pick, I’d pick China because it makes me safer. Not because I’d like it. I wouldn’t. Fuck spying.
I also think it’s really weird that Americans are replying to me being really defensive over other countries not preferring to give America all their data.
Like I said, America isn’t as great as Americans think it is. The rest of the world doesn’t want their data funneled into America. I’m sorry if this is how you’re finding out that America isn’t number one.
I’m really not trying to be a dick or argue, I just don’t get how you don’t understand the basic concept that Canada will hand me over to the US, but won’t hand me over to China.
It’s also frustrating that you guys think that if I don’t agree with America having my data, that I love China? I don’t. Never said I did. I hate both places having my data. I hate my own country having my data. It’s not all black and white.
American politicians don’t need social media to invade peoples privacy. The patriot act sealed the deal a while ago. If they want to spy, they’re going to.
I should also add that the whole tik tok ban is just a way to toss in extra laws that give the America government more control. They say it’s about tik tok, but it’s a scapegoat to get people to vote for invasive laws.
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Now do American politicians when an elementary school is attacked by a gunman.
There’d be nothing for the top box.
When a trans person is on a beer can:
When an elementary school is shot up for the 5th time this week by a gunman:
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This is implicitly an argument that Tik Tok should be banned.
Ya, but when America is in control it’s okay. /s
Sure, but they at least pretend to care. When Google steals my data, they pretend to not have it. When China has my data, literally anybody can have my data.
The key difference is that American Government agencies don’t have access to the information TikTok steals from its users.
Edit: This comment implied the US has easy access to the data from companies like Facebook.
This is naive. America has all the laws they need to get data from private companies, just the same as China
Sure, but there’s a difference between having the potential to do something, and actively doing it. I’m aware the FBI/CIA can get my data from Google if they want it, but something would have to trigger them into wanting to investigate me. With a Chinese company there is no “if”, all of the data goes straight to the CCP. Tencent, the bloated multimedia company, even had a moment of ironic hypocrisy where they didn’t want to give away all of their users’ data.
The US and UK governments have literally that
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden
You should probably read your own links. It only reinforces what I said. Also, I’m thankfully not American.
I assume you’re referring to the fact that it claims to be based on court orders
You might want to look into what the FISA court counts as oversight
And thanks to Snowden revelations we know for a fact that US companies work directly with US government and share all their user data.
This is what people miss. Furthermore, it’s reasonable not to want an enemy state to have access to information relating to a country’s citizens. Yes, the US has done. Yes, it was wrong. Yes, they are getting a taste of their own medicine. That’s why they’re worried about it. They know how badly that information can be used.
Furthermore, it is clear the Chinese government has an influence over app contents. It is easy for them to use it to shape the opinions of their userbase depending on the country.
Exactly this
At least in theory they have to get a warrant, although there are plenty of examples of tech companies handing over information without one. They definitely have access to all the same information if they really want it though.
Edit: In hindsight I think I may have misinterpreted how that post was intended. American government agencies do have a harder time getting access to TikTok’s information, although at least for US users TikTok has separate servers that make it possible for them to do so.
They have to get a warrant to demand it, yes. But if they show up with a bag full of money, the companies will just turn it right over.
They probably don’t even need that. Corpos like to work with the government, it’s mutual.
Yeah, what does Meta have to lose? Only their reputation for protecting user privacy, which was lost long ago.
To be fair, they haven’t exactly stepped in where the activities of Chinese applications are concerned. They just keep threatening to do so.
See Montana
new user freshly connected to internet, would you rather:
-waste your precious time and attention on hypercapitalist hellscape headquartered in usa, or
-waste your precious time and attention on hypercapitalist hellscape headquartered in china
I would pick whatever entertains me the most.
Why not spend your time on a Japanese platform? We got anime ~
Japanese sites have web ui designs that are pretty bad. Argue way worse than having to use the official reddit app ad wise.
Is wasting my precious time and attention on an anticapitalist hellscape headquartered on distributed servers around the world an option?
as long as it lasts
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Both are bad.
But only one is a national security threat.
Depends on the perspective
Is it the one that radicalizes people into white supremacist terrorism?
I remember articles in the early 00s about how China wouldn’t allow Google to operate there and a big deal was made about “the great firewall of China” and how it was all about censorship, but now that China has an influential internet service, US congress is demanding they hand over ownership of US operations to a US company.
Can’t we just say that both are bad?
Not on the mass media.
Mass media are at their core propaganda tools. Their mission is to further the agendas of whoever finances them, they are not driven by the pursuit of truth, justice or anything related such as the defense of privacy.
We should be saying both are bad. We need much stronger, EU like privacy laws.
No one who has ever said “neither Washington nor Beijing” has ever meant it; and marks you as just another Beltway settler afaic.
And how would privacy laws be applied to TikTok, which is outside the jurisdiction of these laws?
The only way to get TikTok to have any privacy policies at all is by threatening to block them.
Which is what’s happening.
TikTok isn’t outside of that jurisdiction, they are operating in places like the US. If they violate privacy laws, you remove them from accessing that market
politicians are actively talking about banning tiktok. let me know when they do the same for twitter, instagram, reddit, facebook, tinder, youtube, google, amazon, and every other US site that does the exact same snooping that tiktok does. THEN we can say “both are bad”.
I think you’ve got it backwards. If we can’t acknowledge that both are bad before talking about banning them, then what justification do we have for banning them?
I think that is generally the point?
Often Americans point to china as big bad for shit America is actively doing as well, while pretending America is so great. They both fucking suck. They both want to be the major super power and to do so they both do horrible shit to their own people, people in other countries, entire other countries, both extremely capitalistic, etc.
God I was hoping the Tankys wouldn’t run here full speed after reddit shut down, but looks like that ship already sailed.
Certainly hope you’re not getting the impression that I’m speaking in favor of China. I’m more in favor of equal outrage over invasions of privacy from all parties, foreign and domestic.
Whataboutism is a classic way to invalidate an argument without having to disagree with it directly. You’re engaging in that purposefully or not. If you really agree that both are bad why would people shitting on TikTok upset you at all?
You should probably check your shit before replying - Lemmy was created and has been maintained by VERY left leaning people.
ooh I get to block another tanky
Are you a child? Because that’s what I’d expect of someone who calls anyone a “tanky” for getting their bullshit pointed out.
This just in, American realises no one outside of America actually likes America!
You think you’re all that and a bag of chips, but quite frankly the rest of the world is laughing at you and doesn’t want anything to do with you.
When you’re faced with that, you call everyone a “tankie”. Almost like people can hate both America and China. Both countries are dog shit.
Here, take my Lemmy gold kind stranger 🪙
Shit, even some Amerikan subjects-of-empire don’t like Amerika.
Do other people who defend China even use or like TikTok? I sure don’t, I have never used TikTok as an argument for China.
So many people here who don’t understand why people are able to criticize more than one country be like:
A: “Tell me the difference between these pictures:” || xor
B: “They are the same”
its almost like foreign governments collecting information about your population is a bad thing for your people and your government, or something.
It’s worse for the US to have my data as a Canadian than China. America can come for me, and my country would hand me over. China can’t do shit to me.
America would lose all standing in global politics and the global economy if they invaded Canada without very strong reason. If the US started a war with China tomorrow, half the world, Canada included, would either do nothing or join them.
They’re talking about extradition
Wtf does that have to do with anything? Were talking about large scale spying not infringing on American copyrights.
… And when they are spying, and see something they don’t like, they CAN come for me. Canadian government won’t stop them.
I don’t want a shitty country like America to spy on me. Sorry. America is not as great as Americans act like it is.
Like I’ve said, I want no one to spy on me. But if I had to pick, I’d pick China because it makes me safer. Not because I’d like it. I wouldn’t. Fuck spying.
Yeah, the US is really gunna come after you because…? Right, there is no way your government would give you over without actual evidence.
It seems like you don’t understand the point.
I also think it’s really weird that Americans are replying to me being really defensive over other countries not preferring to give America all their data.
Like I said, America isn’t as great as Americans think it is. The rest of the world doesn’t want their data funneled into America. I’m sorry if this is how you’re finding out that America isn’t number one.
I’m really not trying to be a dick or argue, I just don’t get how you don’t understand the basic concept that Canada will hand me over to the US, but won’t hand me over to China.
It’s also frustrating that you guys think that if I don’t agree with America having my data, that I love China? I don’t. Never said I did. I hate both places having my data. I hate my own country having my data. It’s not all black and white.
American politicians don’t need social media to invade peoples privacy. The patriot act sealed the deal a while ago. If they want to spy, they’re going to.
I should also add that the whole tik tok ban is just a way to toss in extra laws that give the America government more control. They say it’s about tik tok, but it’s a scapegoat to get people to vote for invasive laws.
@Veedems If our freedom we wanna keep. Facebook, Microsoft, BP, Nestlé, and Google we have to kill.