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I’m sorry. I’m more interested in a debate based on facts, not accusations. You keep dropping two thirds of the argument, debunking one thing with something that’s besides the point, and then calling me things that aren’t true either. Have a nice day.
(Edit: Thanks for the article on the social dilemma, though. i genuinely was unaware people hold that view on that movie. it’s been some time and i don’t recall all of the story, maybe i didn’t take things face value and thought everyone knew where they stretched the facts. i think i’m going to reconsider and stop recommending that one. I’m not saying i agree 100% to those articles, but there is some merit to this.)
I’m not sure what kind of background you have. Sure that movie is complex things ‘dumbed down’. It’s a movie. Them framing the story to make it thrilling and whatever, doesn’t automatically debunk the facts i just told. I should stop with the examples.
What’s the difference between your “pursuing engagement” and my “get people addicted”. Fact is they carefully design apps to make them engaging. Play a tiktok video just in the right moment to keep you scrolling. sometimes even videos you dislike to invoke feelings. invent karma to keep you invested in your account. fine tune gameification to give rewards to your brain in exactly the right moments to keep you either engaged or buy in-game currency.
You’re allowed to submit to that.
There’s a lot of dumb people.
And lots of the psychological tricks and methods are designed to be subtle enough to go unnoticed and not interfere.
And what about all the other arguments?
to assume I am manipulated
what exactly do you think (for example) targeted advertising is? and by looking at the revenue of big tech, do you think it succeeds at that? do you know cambridge analytica and the country of great britain?
I know algorithms don’t have a profile on me
we already established they do.
algorithm designers aren’t specifically supervillains
Watch something like “the social dilemma”. why do YOU think silicon valley hires psychologists for app design? Do you think it’s ethical to try and get people addicted to your product?
What do you want from me? Those algorithms are proprietary. A few select people in the world know what exactly they’re doing and which data gets stored how in the databases. We can make assumptions by their behaviour. From time to time something gets leaked and we learn some details. We used to learn how the google pagerank algorithm works in university. Now google suggests me what to read and i just swallow that. And you keep making apologies and deny you can be / are being manipulated…?! or harm you ‘reliably’?
Well i think you underestimate what algorithms can piece together. And i don’t think it is necessary to know everything about someone. Even if you’re missing half of the picture… A few key facts may be enough to manipulate someone or gently push them into a direction that is more aligned to your goals as a company (for example). Information can be linked after the fact. And - we’re getting a bit philosophical here - You’re kind of the sum of your parts, your history, behaviours and different interests. No single part defines you but still they’re part of you and of what you are. If I can get access to some part of you like your literacy, what kind of media you consume to make up your mind. What kind of people you’re going to meet on social media. I’m starting to affect a part of what is ‘You’ and it also affects you as an entity.
I’m glad you value privacy. I’m not exactly sure what those algorithms do. But there are cookies and there is browser fingerprinting. And it works pretty well. If you use two accounts and use the same device, they can most likely tell by your browser fingerprint and they already know they both belong to you. And even if you’re using seperate devices. If you’re using a residential internet connection, it’s the same IP address for both devices. This is probably also evaluated, because they store that information for the advertisers, because being in close geographical proximity is important for some metrics.
How do you think TikTok recommends videos you like? How do you think YouTube shows you videos about astronomy or diy-stuff or whatever you like and omit the videos about kajaking? How do you think amazon recommends you similar items or shows you what you bought in the last 6 months?
They all have a specific profile for you as a person. It doesn’t really matter if they don’t file it with your real name as a key. It may be called a number or just contain your email address. Nonetheless it get’s loaded and used when you open your browser, when you log in to those services. Rest assured they know you and your behaviours well enough. They don’t need to store your name along with that. And don’t tell me you have 20 google accounts, clear your cookies and have all the browser extensions installed to evade all of that.
data collected by apps doesn’t invade my privacy
Sorry, i’m really at a loss here. I don’t understand. App data is used to make you transparent. To learn something about you to sell advertisements and show them to exactly those people who are the most likely to be influenced by it. This is how targeted advertisement works.
You’re right. You’re not ‘harmed’ in the original meaning of the word. You’re just being manipulated. And so are millions of other people on the internet.
I think we’re talking about an abstract concept here. The example with the sex questions is more of a metaphor/image to make you remember there is stuff out there, we’d like to keep private. It’s not necessarily your main concern regarding google. Those are different things but way less graphic and more difficult to explain, so i went with this example instead.
only matter if you are running for office or something
You’re close to the category of people i described last. You don’t care for freedom. You don’t care your attention is guided by other people. Information that is shown to you is gated by algorithms. And their power to manipulate you comes from the knowledge they have about you.
no-one cares about their specific data
Au contraire. Companies pay big money for data. The more specific, the more valuable. The biggest companies of today, like amazon, google, twitter, meta… Their business model is to collect data about you, sell advertisements, maybe even sell the data they’ve collected about you. And all of that is worth billions and billions of dollars. Why do you think they let you use TikTok or YouTube or something for free and the comany still makes millions? You’re right. That’s the cumulative sum. Your own data maybe is only worth 15$ to some company. Maybe more to some hacker if your credit card info gets leaked, too. But it doesn’t make it any better if you’re not the only one who gets exploited, but you’re part of an exploited majority… The TikTok algorithm, the ads etc are specifically tailored to your personality. To influence specifically your attention.
And what do you even tell the few people who actually suffer consequences? Like, i read stories about women being stalked with the help of social media. Sometimes even police officers using their computers to stalk ex partners. Their data gets collected in mass. And stored for legitimate reasons… Do you tell them: Bad luck you’re being stalked by some scummy person? We the 99.9% of people don’t have this specific problem?
Just ask them a bunch of indiscreet questions. Do you watch porn? What category of porn turns you on the most? Do you think it’s appropriate to have sex in a room on the ground floor without curtains? What? You own curtains? What is your salary? What’s the amount of money in your savings account? Why do you have so many loud disagreements with your partner? Don’t you like visiting your in-laws? What’s inside the drawer at the bottom, next to your bed? Have you had any embarassing and cringy moments in the last few years you’d like to share?
Of course this is only the beginning. It’s not like the corporations collect data and then don’t do anything with it. You’d also have to be okay with them deducing information about you. Try to use that information to manipulate you into giving them attention, buying the stuff they want you to buy. That system is in place to nudge you into thinking what the algorithm wants you to think. App developers are actively trying to make the apps more addicting so you spend more time with them… People just get exploited with the help of all of that data.
If people really are that tame and have no secret fantasies, no sensitive data, no shame, no personal shortcomings they’d like to forget… And they don’t care about the annual security breaches of big platforms people use willingly, but that information then gets used by people who use it to send you spam or impersonate you and trick your grandma to send her retirement to some scammer… And they like to be shoved around by big corporations like cattle, used to fuel the capitalist system… …I myself tend to leave them alone. There is nothing that can be done at this point. Those people are lost, and they don’t want freedom for themselves.
Wow. You read the news and know people have been arrested on the basis of some data that was wrong or misleading? You know companies hire psychologists to make their apps more addicting to you? This isn’t something just in theory. Look it up! They’re actively manipulating you, right now. And they care for their own goals, not for your quality of life. You know you’re fine with all your sold data, credit scores etc as long as the score is good? There are people who lost their job without being at fault. Good for them they now can’t finance a replacement for their broken down car to get to job interviews.
The Linux Experiment did a video on this: https://tilvids.com/w/99oSPPBJb3tkdVLc3fsSe5
Well, i remember those times. I’d miss a few people who earn money and make entertaining stuff, like ElectroBOOM or Mark Rober doing squirrel mazes or annoy porch pirtates, Maker’s Muse 3d-printing puzzles for wild parrots… People shooting documentaries. We’d lose some of those people, because they’d need to work a real job. Maybe they’d still make a video every now and then… And for some videos you need funding. I think Mark Rober can probably still ‘waste’ 10000$ for a video because he can promote himself and the stuff he sells, but nobody else can. Same for things like people buying things and test and compare them independently. (Like computer components. PC magazines used to do stuff like that, but they also still struggle with earning money.)
On the flip side… We’d get rid of all the content farms at once. All those life hacks that don’t work. All the fake stuff that’s only there because the video takes 5min to make and some stupid(?) people watch it. It would be gone instantly. And all the reaction streamer people, too.
I really love things people create of their own accord. Like old youtube videos. Or art like music, published under a creative commons license. Cory Doctorow publishing novels you can download them for free. The funny Sysadmin stories from usenet times. All the free software out there. I really (figuratively) have no clue why people use something like windows instead of linux. it’s really awesome. I prefer the free software video editors like Kdenlive. I wouldn’t want to use some proprietary one.
There is great stuff out there, that isn’t based on the business model of selling something now. Or tracking people and advertising stuff to them. I’ve lost track of what i was trying to say. The world would be kind of a different place. I don’t know if better or worse would be correct categories. But certainly different.
I wouldn’t be so sure. I too, hope it will get there some day. But honestly, many creators are trying to make money with their videos or earn a living by making videos. This isn’t possible on Peertube and there is no simple solution. (Patreon seems not enough and advertising is difficult and not liked in the fediverse).
This means all those video creators and hence their followers will not choose Peertube.
well, the nice thing about peertube is: it’s supposed to be peer to peer, like torrent. you don’t need to work out CDNs, caching, load balancing etc because all the viewers can help sharing the videos. (other instances can, too but you need to enable that redundancy per video or instance)
of course that has limits and doesn’t scale in some circumstances. but that’s the idea.
yeah okay. maybe people aren’t afraid of becoming an alcoholic. i mainly drink on weekends and maybe on a few weekdays for example when it’s summer and warm.
Idk … I worry about cancer like when i eat beef or order a pizza with salami. Both things that also cause cancer.
But okay, don’t drink too much alcohol.
Edit: What i wanted to say is: Don’t live your life in constant fear. Plenty things around you cause cancer. And life always ends in death. But i think that shouldn’t stop you from enjoying life. You’re allowed to occasionally drink or eat beef if you want. The risk is very small, as long as you don’t do it excessively.
you don’t need antivirus with linux.
there are next to no linux viruses. there is a bit of malware, but mostly targeted at servers. just don’t excessively download and execute random stuff. and don’t type things like “rm -rf /” into your console, if people tell you to. use your package manager where you can.
(most linux antivirus is used in like email-servers to scan mail before sending them out, so the windows clients don’t get infected. antivirus on linux is seldomly/never(?) used to protect the linux itself.)
The correct answer is: It heavily depends on your individual circumstances. There is behaviours that are difficult to change. And there is nicotine, which is quite addictive. Some people can change things quite easily, while it’s next to impossible for other people.
Vaping should come with far less health risks than smoking. you don’t smell and your lung capacity gets to a normal level if you get from smoking to vaping.
So either your friend is for example addicted to nicotine. Or their intention is something else than quitting this. Maybe they like e-cigarettes and don’t see a reason to get rid of it. You’d have to ask them if they’re even trying to quit.
Eure Bilder sind langweilig. Dreimal am Tag irgendwelche Vergleiche von Parteien, Aluhutträgern oder so. Oder Kreiswichs, der so inzestär ist, dass es verboten gehört. Schreibt mal was Witziges. Vllt auch aus der Lebensrealität von einem/r durchschnittlicheren Lurcher:in, wo sich kaum für Bundespolitik interessiert. Ab und zu klappt das ja.
You’re right this is the stereotype with ‘japanese people’. But you got to be careful with stereotypes. Even if you hear them a lot.
People don’t like if you tell them “that’s the two character traits we’ve assigned for you”. Or it may be something that has been wrong for a long time and you’re the one helping to repeat false information. It may cause all sorts of misunderstandings. Especially for the person in the group who doesn’t comply to that… Just be careful with stereotypes. It’s kind of okay in this case, because we’re discussing the stereotype on a meta level, and it’s not that much of a deal to talk about stereotypes, but in real life i’d just keep it to myself.
Depending on which country we’re talking about… I disagree with most people here. If your country doesn’t care, and because of that your ISP doesn’t keep logs… What benefit would a VPN have? It’d just cost you money and make everything a bit slower. And there’s another company messing with your data. IANAL, though.
This is kind of besides the question, but a reddit alternative also is on a completely different level than developing an alternative for youtube. it is way easier to replace. You mainly need the userbase.
With youtube, it’s more complicated. Hosting videos takes vast amounts of storage. And it is pretty commercialized. People want to make money with their content. Which opens another can of worms. You need advertisements, tracking, payments … Legal stuff becomes much more important when handling money etc.
yeah. that’s probably the easiest by far. just cut the bindings and feed them into the ADF of your scanner.
those book scanners are also nice. i scanned a few chapters of books at the university library. but it takes like 10 minutes per 100 pages. you turn the pages manually. and there is a foot switch to trigger the camera above. you need a good podcast while continuously turning pages for half an hour.
Excuse me. i don’t know what i’m saying but i havent had any green or blue bubbles yet in my life. i guess you’re referring to apple’s messenger? i don’t like that term, but i think people who just believe in iphones (without thinking any further) are sheep. you get nice cloud services, a clean ecosystem and colored bubbles, but little to none control over your device, privacy and a skewed perspective on other people. Idk. Just don’t let your phone define you and your friends. I won’t. And i won’t accept friends who define friendship by the operating system on somebodys phone.
Sure. You can try to sneak something in that isn’t obvious. But you can also try to evade behavioural analysis. Not load load your malicious code if you detect you’re running inside a virtual machine. Stop sending packets if some sniffer software is installed, only send data every 2 months, etc… It’s an arms race, either way.
Regarding ‘a difference in effort’: Idk. It’s a pretty big difference. You could also call taking a plane to fly to hawaii for two weeks or swimming there - a difference in effort. And while there might be one or two outliers with obscure code, the majority will be kind of readable. But i agree. You have to be intelligent, pay close attention if somebody tries to sneak something in in plain sight, know how you could be tricked and use multiple tools and approaches simultaneously, to be effective.
I don’t think so. These things actually happen all the time. However, you’re free to not “think of the children”.
There is fearmongering and actual problems. and i think this one is legitimate. At the end of the day a car is dangerous heavy machinery. At speed it can do all kinds of damage and kill several people at once. And even without being running, it’s a 2t heavy metal thing. it can still easily crush people, your neighbour’s dog and put dents into their car / home / mailbox. Or you can leave your toddler unattended and cook them in the sun. Idk kids and cars aren’t the perfect match. And if you own or operate heavy machinery like a car, you’re the one responsible to do the bare minimum to migitate for some of the risks.
Edit: I’ll give you a pass if you live on the countryside and there aren’t much people around. But leaving your stuff unlocked isn’t the correct solution for theft. Maybe stop the thieves. Or give them something to eat or a job so they don’t have to smash all those car windows. Idk. I think this excessive car theft is a thing in a few selected cities. In other places you wouldn’t leave your backpack in your car and invite someone to break your windows, but other than that there is little chance of someone damaging an empty, locked car. ( I’ve locked my car every day for decades and had zero break in attempts )
True. However afaik it’s because otherwise some stupid 5 yo kids can get into cars and roll over their siblings if they manage to release the parking brake. And because nobody wants to clean that up, they made it illegal to leave your car unlocked. I don’t know if there are more reasons. I don’t like too many regulations, but i kind of get this one.
Yeah. That’s also what i’ve told people. It just takes some time for things to settle, until a new balance and new culture is established. We need to figure out a few things, maybe cry or get angry. Solve technical problems and so on. There are real feelings involved and a few people have lost a place they once belonged or a community they liked. I still see disappointment, frustration mixed with excitement and curiosity for something novel. Things will settle down and the past feelings will become less important.