If you scroll down to about a day ago, you might be able to observe an emerging behavior from this mod.
EDIT 2: The mod in question moderates a total of 108 Lemmy communities. How deep does this conspiracy run? Is this mod a lost Redditor? More to come!
EDIT 3: The mod has now removed my comment all together, one might assume because it was still receiving upvotes in the 2 hours following my ban. Are there similarities here to Watergate? You be the judge!
EDIT 4: The mod in question has now been removed as a mod of the [email protected] community, as a result of their abuse of power.
EDIT 5: This will be my final update, since as far as I see it, the issue this thread focuses on has been resolved. To quote Beaver herself in a very ironic comment she made directed towards someone else:
It’s funny that she thinks she’s accomplishing anything here but all that’s happening is that she’s eroding her own credibility, especially with those angry memes targeting people who aren’t Vegans and her beef with the Lemmy.world admins.
That’s very true, her behavior is indeed quite harmful towards the community she claims to support and erodes the credibility of their movement.
Even though the thing about crazy vegans is largely a stereotype and all vegans are not like that, she is perpetuating that stereotype by her own behavior.
I’m not vegan, but honestly I can understand. As soon as you have an opinion which is not the one of the majority, your posts, even in thematic spaces, are heavily downvoted, and it’s tiring. I’m not conservative, I disagree with the posts in c/conservative, buy why would I downvote the things they publish there? A lot of Lemmy members do, however. Same with c/vegan or the religious communities.
The Fediverse seems a lot “bubblier” than Reddit, with people quicker to hit the downvote button for views that intrude. I’ve lost a lot of drive to engage here, I find myself often dropping a comment into a discussion and then never looking back at it. Unfortunate, but I suppose not too surprising when communities are smaller.
I’m sorry to hear that. I hope life becomes slower and calmer for you in the future. I don’t read anything into up or down votes. I just open my fat stupid mouth and anonymously comment. Sometimes people like it, sometimes they don’t. Voting is more a reflection of the people you talk to. I’m sure the first person who said the world was round and circled the sun would have been downvoted into oblivion back in the day, but… gestures broadly at modern astronomy. Don’t sweat it.
Most instances should have a modlog link in the footer of the main page.
It theoretically should show any moderation actions taken across all instances that specific instance is federated with.
This is not written in stone however, because I’ve had “shadow” mod actions levied against me by an instance that did not appear on the modlog. I cannot comment on why or how an action wouldn’t appear in the modlog, I don’t know enough about that.
Lol, they will never comment. They are too busy ‘moderating’ all those communities, it’s more then a 1 person job working 24/7…clearly nothing nefarious going on.
EDIT 2: The mod in question moderates a total of 108 Lemmy communities. How deep does this conspiracy run? Is this mod a lost Redditor? More to come!
What was the name of that mod on reddit with 5k communities? I remember they were very well known, but it’s been a long time since having an account there.
It sounds crazy to hear someone mods 5k communities or 108 until you put eyes on them and realize most are dead, functionally dead, or memes. I modded 100+ subreddits on reddit when I was there, the drop in population after about the fifth was massive. After about 15 or so we were at truly inconsequential populations.
I do wonder however if it suggests things about a person, that they moderate that many communities. For instance, is it indicative of power seeking behavior?
At this point we should turn Rule 5 into it’s own joke. Bad vibes? Rule 5. I don’t like you? Rule 5. I’m having a bad day? Rule 5. The great servers need a sacrifice? Rule 5. Bitching about Rule 5? Believe it or not, Rule 5.
The users at lemmy.world basically already drove the mods in that community to suggest vegan communities on other instances to basically not have to put up with the rest of lemmy.world. It’s a dead community walking and the whole ordeal convinced me to block .world. I’ve seen less content, but damn has my experience on Lemmy gotten a whole lot better.
You’ll probably never see this, but I applaud you. Isn’t that the whole point of the fediverse? You can control who and what you see, and if you ever change your mind you can easily undo it. (And I get it, everybody needs a safe space sometimes.)
Justified ban imo. You weren’t there to discuss veganism as a vegan, you were there for drama. It’s not spam when they make a lot of posts to their own community. Unless the content is hateful, the correct response is to block.
Increasingly I believe communities should be able to hide from All. I step into places without realizing it too. They want an echo bunker, not a public sidewalk
To expand:
c/veganism isn’t actually a place to discuss the merits or news about vegan topics, or recipes.
It’s a place for vegans, and only vegans, to share likeminded opinions on their world view. This is not unique to this community.
Being a non vegan, and sharing a non vegan opinion there is not what they want. They find it offensive, and nearly bannable in general.
Ultimately, that’s ok, it’s their community.
The problem comes in when their posts land on All, where anyone sees it and feels invited to read and comment and vote. (Which I believe they are). So a mechanism to keep them off All would be useful to discourage people “walking by”
And I would say with such a rule, places shouldn’t have a rule 5 style rule AND be found on All. It should be either or. If you expose yourself to the public (to expand traffic), you.have to be thick skinned enough to handle public banter, which will not align with the community core.
What I mean to say is I didn’t enjoy a stay. My comment was made in a manner I would have made in any other community that popped up on All, that was serving up terrible meme after terrible meme. I wasn’t there to do anything.
If you were never a member of the community, then you’ve lost nothing from being banned, and the mod was right to decide that your comment wasn’t a good faith contribution from a member of the community.
It’s not spam when they make a lot of posts to their own community.
I disagree. I see this often from lemmynsfw or various meme communities where some users tend to just dump 5-10 or even more threads. Neither Lemmy nor mbin really uses algorithms to prevent communities from showing up more than once, so you’ll always get the full load of those submissions spammed into your feed.
And no, blocking the entire community is not a valid solution when you do not inherently disagree with it.
Incidentally, vegan Spam does exist both in the official Spam brand and in another brand called unMeat. As someone who really doesn’t like Spam, though, I’m unqualified to judge it.
Am I missing something here? The vegan community is for vegans and people to ask questions about being vegan but is not for debating about any part of being vegan. That is their rule 5, which I see people break every day thinking it is ok to shit all over vegans there. If you don’t want to hear about vegans then block the community.
Well yeah if seeing vegan content upsets you enough to break their rule 5 then it is not a good community for you. And that is ok, honestly I get grief in real life about me trying to be vegan. Having a place amongst other vegans and people not anti-vegan is nice. I also don’t know the context behind the post so if there is something I’m missing feel free to tell me.
I personally believe this particular mod may be abusing the community’s rule 5, stretching it to suit their agenda. But I’ll leave the interpretation up to you.
Note that others are reporting being banned by simply downvoting community posts. Suggesting further overreach.
I’ll be one to admit my own comment was a bit cheeky. I had honestly never really noticed the [email protected] in my All feed until today, when this particular mod started posting a great deal of really poorly formatted memes. My cheeky comment was my only ever comment in the community.
I can’t speak to any actual brigading, as the community normally isn’t worth my time, which is very, very important to me.
Users cannot vote in a community that has banned them. If the mod wants to restrict voting only to people who vote in good faith, that’s their prerogative. It’s probably a good idea, it prevents downvote spam from bots and the like. When you have a community that has very different values from /all, maybe kicking the /all people who vote against the sub’s values out is good. Voting is participation.
When some of those mods are perfectly fine with lgbtq persecution, and make it out like vegans have it worse, or dont care because they wouldn’t have to see it personally…
I’m just going to go ahead and consider it a toxic shithole. Worst part? Different mod, but they seem to be all over the same vegan communities, so none of them become worthwhile.
I personally don’t care if they ban me since I’ve blocked the communities anyway. Just unfortunate as I really enjoy seeing some of the recipes, as there are a decent number of them that are gluten free (which I need to be).
Well, spoke to soon. I was banned for being ‘uncivil’ on the .world vegan community for calling out this same behavior, and hoping the community ended up somewhere other than on that particular instance.
Sooo… yeah I’m keeping the block. Maybe expanding to some mods there would be sensible.
It does. You’ve opened the conversation about voting as participation and helped us reach some new ideas on moderation practice. It’s dialectics. As I said in another comment in this thread, I think the existence of posts like this is good even if this ban wasn’t a problem.
Fwiw, anyone giving you grief irl is a jerk, unless you’re trying to convert them.
Away from the internet, I know a good handful of vegans that I gladly cook for. Not regions everyone hates y’all for living your beliefs.
And, just for full disclosure, I troll vegans online. That’s where most of the jerks that are vegan do their thing, not irl.
Me and you, if life threw us together, I’d make you my vegan chili, and we’d chill. But I’d still troll you online if you did the usual online stuff that gets vegans painted as crazy.
Which is my best effort at saying that that’s probably what you’re missing. Even people like me that have no problems with the precepts of veganism per se, we can get tired of the vegans that take things too far, and then the entire belief system gets colored by that brush. It creates a general fatigue, then a general stereotype, and that turns into assholes going to vegan spaces and being assholes (as opposed to only doing it in other spaces). That in turn makes militant vegans go on the warpath, and you get stuff like this drama lol
It’s a cycle of annoyance and limited perception. That cycle attracts the worst elements of humanity
Thank you for posting this. I know now that it was because of voting which is ehh not as bad as I thought. But yeah IRL my family and partner aren’t very supportive, I’ve been trying to ignore their comments. It’s just hard sometimes, like just last night my partner said they felt sorry for me during dinner because I didn’t have meat in my meal. I think that’s probably why some vegans become more aggressive online as well as the cycle going on. Idk I just like reading articles and seeing recipes. When I first went vegan my dad tried getting my whole family to convince me to eat meat again. I love my dad but that sucked. I also love my partner and they are otherwise fine, but they seem to have a problem and are adjusting to my new diet. I can understand the fatigue a vegan may go through, but banning people for voting isn’t exactly what I had in mind as their rule 5.
I’m sorry you’re running into such a degree of outright opposition. I never have understood that part, why someone that loves you would be persistent and nigh aggressive about something that’s essentially not their business.
Somebody wants to make a change, move towards something they feel is better, you support that, even if you need to draw your own boundaries about it.
That would be exhausting to deal with for anyone, the opposition.
I kinda get where the mod is at, the way you describe the fatigue. I think it’s better to step aside once your at that point, refresh yourself, maybe make a decision about that being a permanent break from trying to herd cats online or not. I’ve had to do the a few times over the years.
I’m sorry you went through that. It shapes us to have thicker skin, but it can also lead to bad outcomes depending on the friends and family involved.
Ed Winters talked about this on his channel recently. One of the biggest reasons people don’t go vegan, and one of the biggest reasons pushing people away from the movement is the social dimension: living with people and still holding them as on your side when they very clearly violate your moral code. It’s one of the hardest burdens of vegans, as I’m sure it can be for other minorities. Again, I’m not equating vegans to a minority group like LGBTQ or POC. The animals are the minority group. But when you have discrimination and sometimes segregation for specific groups in society, you can start to draw parallels.
Good luck with your vegan life from a fellow vegan 🤙
I got banned (rule 5) for downvoting a meme with misleading information. I’m not vegan, but I like the idea in general so I did enjoy seeing content. But things have gone off the rails recently.
This is entirely a mod issue. I’m vegan, and they need to be removed. They are ruining the image of the community so that people like OP start pushing for everyone to block it. If that isn’t ruining the prospects of our cause, then I don’t know what is.
The mod isn’t banning people for debating in the comments. A lot of people the mod is banning (myself included) are people who only downvoted posts. Considering that a large portion of the posts are blatantly antagonist things like this, it easy to see why they’re getting downvoted. If you’re going to insult 90% of the users on an instance, then you’re going to get downvoted.
The mod could have made the community private so they could insult people without consequences, but instead, they decided to remain public while banning anyone who downvotes their insults. They want to continue to antagonize the instance while removing the instance’a ability to respond. They want to artificially lower the number of downvotes they get, so it doesn’t look like their antagonistic bullshit is as unpopular as it is.
Everyone could block the community, and if you choose to do that, that’s a reasonable response, but it shouldn’t be the only response. We should be able to express our opinion about the content in our feeds, even if it’s just downvoting it. Why should an entire instance be expected to hide from one abusive community?
I’ve responded to this before and no one cared but here is the original thread since everyone has greatly exaggerated what was said about cats who are obligate carnivores not obligated to eat meat per se.
I admit I have no idea how to respond to that. Every vegan has different views on their lifestyle. I have two dogs, they eat kibble that has meat in it (they are very picky idk if I can change them to a vegetarian kibble), I homemake simple peanut butter biscuit treats for them, and I brush their teeth with meat flavored toothpaste. This is ok to me but is probably out of line for others. Some vegans would never own a cat and would rather own a rabbit or guinea pig instead. This vegan believes more that we shouldn’t have pets apparently. I don’t have this view so I cannot defend it other than they are trying to reduce harm in their own way.
Consider the absurdity of that statement for a second.
How can a non-vegan ask a question about the lifestyle without engaging in a debate? How do you actively interact with information without debating it?
Debates don’t have to be antagonistic. When both parties are genuinely interested in questioning their own values and opinions they can be incredibly rewarding. I can understand a rule against antagonism, but disallowing debates inherently precludes honest questioning for people interested in growing their knowledge on the lifestyle.
Well it gets fatiguing to debate all the time, especially when some people are just trolling. But you can ask questions like what do you do for protein, B12, iron, etc. without debating. What are some staples that vegans eat, is it easy to make vegan food, how expensive is vegan food, what does a balanced vegan meal look like, what are some recipes, etc. Even asking can a person thrive on a vegan diet through all stages of life and you’ll probably be given an article or recommended to watch Game Changers.
I think they want to stop the antagonistic people, especially if all they want to do is say: it is only natural to eat meat/we evolved to eat meat, humans have dominion over animals, animals don’t have feelings, vegans are just being overemotional aka only logical people eat meat, it is ok to kill animals, killing animals in factory farms is ok because it is efficient, there isn’t enough land to grow vegan food for everyone, etc. Just shit that’s been responded to a million times and at this point seems bad faith since it’s been debunked before. Maybe they could have a sticky or wiki about these common arguments, idk I am not a mod.
It also matters what your tone is and that can be the difference between someone asking questions in good faith vs someone doing an antagonistic debate. But yeah at this point vegans do not need to question their values or opinions when it comes to their diet and lifestyle. You cannot convince a vegan it is ok to kill an animal for food but you might be able to convince a non-vegan it is wrong to kill an animal for food. Anyway that was just my thoughts on it.
The problem is, in my opinion, that they post memes that are clerly provoking non-vegan people for discussion.
It’s weird to jump under a “here are my 15 ways of cooking asparagus” post with anti-vegan content. But “look at these carnovorous clowns” memes are clearly offensive.
I don’t think it’s intended to provoke non-vegan people, I think it’s meant to be a ‘for us, by us’ community. PSA to all: there’s a block community button for communities that are not hateful or illegal (you should report those) but are things you’d prefer not to see on your personalized feeds
That’s what private communities are for. Calling people names while perfectly aware of it leaking into the public feed is a provocation. And it worked.
Private communities don’t exist; you can only create an instance and defederate from everyone else. VeganTheoryClub is an instance which defederated from Lemmy.World, for example.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to re: name-calling tbh, and I think this thread is an overreaction, but I agree with you that non-private communities have some obligation to civility or something like that
Cause over the last few weeks, a bunch of debates over moderation drama have been full of people attacking vegans over the cat taurine debate. That drama is over and it reached a consensus resolution between the mods and admins. If they’ve made an executive judgement that the moderation drama is no longer relevant and baits carnists into breaking rule 5, then removing that debate is a valid application of rule 5.
Depends on the context maybe? Idk I am not a mod. I’ve just seen comments about arguing for eating meat or saying something like “I’m going to eat 2 hamburgers now because of you” which are just annoying. I thought that was what this was about. I’ll leave my comments up for anyone else confused.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: [email protected]
Rules
Any drama must be posted as an observer, you cannot post drama that you are involved with.
When posting screenshots of drama, you must obscure the identity of all the participants.
The poster must have a credible post and comment history before submitting a piece of history. This is to avoid sock-puppetry and witch hunts.
The usual instance-wide rules also apply.
Chronicle the life and tale of the fediverse (+ matrix)
Largely a sublemmy about capturing drama, from fediverse spanning drama to just lemmy drama.
Includes lore like how a instance got it’s name, how an instance got defederated, how an admin got doxxed, fedihistory etc
(New) This sub’s intentions is to an archive/newspaper, as in preferably don’t get into fights with each other or the ppl featured in the drama
I got banned for saying I didn’t think the meme was funny.
I legitimately do not care about that, but I do care deeply about how funny Beaver’s tantrum is, so I hope she keeps it up.
beaver is hilarious
It’s funny that she thinks she’s accomplishing anything here but all that’s happening is that she’s eroding her own credibility, especially with those angry memes targeting people who aren’t Vegans and her beef with the Lemmy.world admins.
She’s eroding the credibility of the community she champions as well.
This isn’t the first time a very loud minority ruined things for the rest of their collective.
That’s very true, her behavior is indeed quite harmful towards the community she claims to support and erodes the credibility of their movement. Even though the thing about crazy vegans is largely a stereotype and all vegans are not like that, she is perpetuating that stereotype by her own behavior.
It’s an echo bunker. Banning anyone who doesn’t whole throatedly support their beliefs is a feature of the community, not a bug. I am banned.
Now I’m wondering if all the other drama surrounding her was actually her fault…
Good job assassinating your own character, I guess, Beavs.
Ah, this explains it! Saw I was banned from a community that I’d never posted in and evidently one of the mods is a wanker. Mystery solved :)
I’m not vegan, but honestly I can understand. As soon as you have an opinion which is not the one of the majority, your posts, even in thematic spaces, are heavily downvoted, and it’s tiring. I’m not conservative, I disagree with the posts in c/conservative, buy why would I downvote the things they publish there? A lot of Lemmy members do, however. Same with c/vegan or the religious communities.
The Fediverse seems a lot “bubblier” than Reddit, with people quicker to hit the downvote button for views that intrude. I’ve lost a lot of drive to engage here, I find myself often dropping a comment into a discussion and then never looking back at it. Unfortunate, but I suppose not too surprising when communities are smaller.
I hide downvotes since we can (latest Lemmy upgrade), that’s better
I also hide downvotes due to the same reasons, (was getting stressed) but that also hides other users’ downvotes. Is there any way to still see them?
Sorry. Do I understand this correctly? You were getting stressed by random internet strangers downvoting you? Are you serious?
yeah I have an anxiety disorder, I get stressed by a lot of things
I’m sorry to hear that. I hope life becomes slower and calmer for you in the future. I don’t read anything into up or down votes. I just open my fat stupid mouth and anonymously comment. Sometimes people like it, sometimes they don’t. Voting is more a reflection of the people you talk to. I’m sure the first person who said the world was round and circled the sun would have been downvoted into oblivion back in the day, but… gestures broadly at modern astronomy. Don’t sweat it.
Not that I know of, it’s all or nothing at the moment
Random, but related, question. How do you pull up these lists? I’ve been banned from a community, but have no idea why
On voyager the modlog for you is in the upper right of the account screen. But the website version is much more extensive.
Most instances should have a modlog link in the footer of the main page.
It theoretically should show any moderation actions taken across all instances that specific instance is federated with.
This is not written in stone however, because I’ve had “shadow” mod actions levied against me by an instance that did not appear on the modlog. I cannot comment on why or how an action wouldn’t appear in the modlog, I don’t know enough about that.
Thanks! Apparently I got banned for being a crypto bot. No idea why, I fucking hate crypto and would never shill any of that useless nonsense.
A gaslighting cryptobot even! Fine! I’ll put the kids’ college fund into Mona Doggocoins. Are you happy now?! Darned cryptobot!
/s
FYI all mod actions should show up, but if a post has been “purged” (completely deleted from the lemmy db) then it also disappears from the modlog.
deleted by creator
Thank you. I did notice your removal as a mod was public. Do you have any comment?
Lol, they will never comment. They are too busy ‘moderating’ all those communities, it’s more then a 1 person job working 24/7…clearly nothing nefarious going on.
Hi Beav!
What was the name of that mod on reddit with 5k communities? I remember they were very well known, but it’s been a long time since having an account there.
They’re not worth mentioning
It sounds crazy to hear someone mods 5k communities or 108 until you put eyes on them and realize most are dead, functionally dead, or memes. I modded 100+ subreddits on reddit when I was there, the drop in population after about the fifth was massive. After about 15 or so we were at truly inconsequential populations.
I do wonder however if it suggests things about a person, that they moderate that many communities. For instance, is it indicative of power seeking behavior?
I do not recall, but they must have received a very large paycheck each month!
IIRC it was more that they paid to be a mod. Someone had money to burn.
Could have been any of a few dozen.
That being said, there were a couple that were automod only mods. They’d get added to help set up and maintain automod, and never do anything else.
At this point we should turn Rule 5 into it’s own joke. Bad vibes? Rule 5. I don’t like you? Rule 5. I’m having a bad day? Rule 5. The great servers need a sacrifice? Rule 5. Bitching about Rule 5? Believe it or not, Rule 5.
Rule 5
Where’s his brother? I could have sworn there were two angry beavers…
Edit: NM totally missed the mod in question’s name.
The users at lemmy.world basically already drove the mods in that community to suggest vegan communities on other instances to basically not have to put up with the rest of lemmy.world. It’s a dead community walking and the whole ordeal convinced me to block .world. I’ve seen less content, but damn has my experience on Lemmy gotten a whole lot better.
You’ll probably never see this, but I applaud you. Isn’t that the whole point of the fediverse? You can control who and what you see, and if you ever change your mind you can easily undo it. (And I get it, everybody needs a safe space sometimes.)
I wondered that myself, does blocking the instance also block comments?
It does not
My client does, but I have the option to click through if I think it’s worth it. Connect is the client.
Wow, blocking LW is a bold move.
Interesting experience, your feed must indeed be much quieter
Justified ban imo. You weren’t there to discuss veganism as a vegan, you were there for drama. It’s not spam when they make a lot of posts to their own community. Unless the content is hateful, the correct response is to block.
I was never there, I was merely passing through All.
Increasingly I believe communities should be able to hide from All. I step into places without realizing it too. They want an echo bunker, not a public sidewalk
To expand:
c/veganism isn’t actually a place to discuss the merits or news about vegan topics, or recipes.
It’s a place for vegans, and only vegans, to share likeminded opinions on their world view. This is not unique to this community.
Being a non vegan, and sharing a non vegan opinion there is not what they want. They find it offensive, and nearly bannable in general.
Ultimately, that’s ok, it’s their community.
The problem comes in when their posts land on All, where anyone sees it and feels invited to read and comment and vote. (Which I believe they are). So a mechanism to keep them off All would be useful to discourage people “walking by”
Definitely
And I would say with such a rule, places shouldn’t have a rule 5 style rule AND be found on All. It should be either or. If you expose yourself to the public (to expand traffic), you.have to be thick skinned enough to handle public banter, which will not align with the community core.
deleted by creator
Well put.
If outsider opinions are nearly always considered “bad faith”, the situation is a systemic issue with the visibility of the group.
The OP literally shows a screenshot of your comment
What I mean to say is I didn’t enjoy a stay. My comment was made in a manner I would have made in any other community that popped up on All, that was serving up terrible meme after terrible meme. I wasn’t there to do anything.
If you were never a member of the community, then you’ve lost nothing from being banned, and the mod was right to decide that your comment wasn’t a good faith contribution from a member of the community.
I disagree. I see this often from lemmynsfw or various meme communities where some users tend to just dump 5-10 or even more threads. Neither Lemmy nor mbin really uses algorithms to prevent communities from showing up more than once, so you’ll always get the full load of those submissions spammed into your feed.
And no, blocking the entire community is not a valid solution when you do not inherently disagree with it.
Weird that criticism of Spam wouldn’t be acceptable in a vegan community!
Incidentally, vegan Spam does exist both in the official Spam brand and in another brand called unMeat. As someone who really doesn’t like Spam, though, I’m unqualified to judge it.
That’s why you go with
!
I’ve been banned for breaking rule 5, which is weird since I’ve never posted in their community.
Have you had impure thoughts about breaking rule 5?
No, but you can bet your bottom dollar I will when I go to bed tonight.
Am I missing something here? The vegan community is for vegans and people to ask questions about being vegan but is not for debating about any part of being vegan. That is their rule 5, which I see people break every day thinking it is ok to shit all over vegans there. If you don’t want to hear about vegans then block the community.
I think what you are missing is that they’re banning people for breaking Rule 5 that haven’t broken Rule 5.
Nobody is taking issue with them banning people that broke Rule 5.
Thanks for adding context, I had no idea what rule 5 was.
This is their rule 5:
That rule seems very… Open to interpretation. Thanks for the info though.
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This good advice. Everyone should block the community.
Well yeah if seeing vegan content upsets you enough to break their rule 5 then it is not a good community for you. And that is ok, honestly I get grief in real life about me trying to be vegan. Having a place amongst other vegans and people not anti-vegan is nice. I also don’t know the context behind the post so if there is something I’m missing feel free to tell me.
I personally believe this particular mod may be abusing the community’s rule 5, stretching it to suit their agenda. But I’ll leave the interpretation up to you.
Note that others are reporting being banned by simply downvoting community posts. Suggesting further overreach.
I forgot Lemmy lets you see who downvoted and upvoted. Idk why that is happening. I thought the brigade was about comments.
I’ll be one to admit my own comment was a bit cheeky. I had honestly never really noticed the [email protected] in my All feed until today, when this particular mod started posting a great deal of really poorly formatted memes. My cheeky comment was my only ever comment in the community.
I can’t speak to any actual brigading, as the community normally isn’t worth my time, which is very, very important to me.
Not just poorly formatted…they were full of insults.
Theory: the posts are bait so Beaver can feel powerful banning people.
I’m on a (admittedly slow), slide towards vegetarianism so I’m obviously pro-vegan…but apparently I got banned two days ago for rule 5
Users cannot vote in a community that has banned them. If the mod wants to restrict voting only to people who vote in good faith, that’s their prerogative. It’s probably a good idea, it prevents downvote spam from bots and the like. When you have a community that has very different values from /all, maybe kicking the /all people who vote against the sub’s values out is good. Voting is participation.
When some of those mods are perfectly fine with lgbtq persecution, and make it out like vegans have it worse, or dont care because they wouldn’t have to see it personally…
I’m just going to go ahead and consider it a toxic shithole. Worst part? Different mod, but they seem to be all over the same vegan communities, so none of them become worthwhile.
I personally don’t care if they ban me since I’ve blocked the communities anyway. Just unfortunate as I really enjoy seeing some of the recipes, as there are a decent number of them that are gluten free (which I need to be).
Which mod is queerphobic? Can I see the evidence?
Well, spoke to soon. I was banned for being ‘uncivil’ on the .world vegan community for calling out this same behavior, and hoping the community ended up somewhere other than on that particular instance.
Sooo… yeah I’m keeping the block. Maybe expanding to some mods there would be sensible.
Edit: There, all set now.
I’ll have to unblock, so I can do that later on, sure. Working so not paying much attention to Lemmy at the moment.
Edit: Sorry, my mistake, not a mod. An admin on the instance recommended / linked to in the side bar.
Shining transparency on these values and modding decisions to the attention of the fediverse then serves the greater good.
It does. You’ve opened the conversation about voting as participation and helped us reach some new ideas on moderation practice. It’s dialectics. As I said in another comment in this thread, I think the existence of posts like this is good even if this ban wasn’t a problem.
Fwiw, anyone giving you grief irl is a jerk, unless you’re trying to convert them.
Away from the internet, I know a good handful of vegans that I gladly cook for. Not regions everyone hates y’all for living your beliefs.
And, just for full disclosure, I troll vegans online. That’s where most of the jerks that are vegan do their thing, not irl.
Me and you, if life threw us together, I’d make you my vegan chili, and we’d chill. But I’d still troll you online if you did the usual online stuff that gets vegans painted as crazy.
Which is my best effort at saying that that’s probably what you’re missing. Even people like me that have no problems with the precepts of veganism per se, we can get tired of the vegans that take things too far, and then the entire belief system gets colored by that brush. It creates a general fatigue, then a general stereotype, and that turns into assholes going to vegan spaces and being assholes (as opposed to only doing it in other spaces). That in turn makes militant vegans go on the warpath, and you get stuff like this drama lol
It’s a cycle of annoyance and limited perception. That cycle attracts the worst elements of humanity
Thank you for posting this. I know now that it was because of voting which is ehh not as bad as I thought. But yeah IRL my family and partner aren’t very supportive, I’ve been trying to ignore their comments. It’s just hard sometimes, like just last night my partner said they felt sorry for me during dinner because I didn’t have meat in my meal. I think that’s probably why some vegans become more aggressive online as well as the cycle going on. Idk I just like reading articles and seeing recipes. When I first went vegan my dad tried getting my whole family to convince me to eat meat again. I love my dad but that sucked. I also love my partner and they are otherwise fine, but they seem to have a problem and are adjusting to my new diet. I can understand the fatigue a vegan may go through, but banning people for voting isn’t exactly what I had in mind as their rule 5.
I’m sorry you’re running into such a degree of outright opposition. I never have understood that part, why someone that loves you would be persistent and nigh aggressive about something that’s essentially not their business.
Somebody wants to make a change, move towards something they feel is better, you support that, even if you need to draw your own boundaries about it.
That would be exhausting to deal with for anyone, the opposition.
I kinda get where the mod is at, the way you describe the fatigue. I think it’s better to step aside once your at that point, refresh yourself, maybe make a decision about that being a permanent break from trying to herd cats online or not. I’ve had to do the a few times over the years.
I’m sorry you went through that. It shapes us to have thicker skin, but it can also lead to bad outcomes depending on the friends and family involved.
Ed Winters talked about this on his channel recently. One of the biggest reasons people don’t go vegan, and one of the biggest reasons pushing people away from the movement is the social dimension: living with people and still holding them as on your side when they very clearly violate your moral code. It’s one of the hardest burdens of vegans, as I’m sure it can be for other minorities. Again, I’m not equating vegans to a minority group like LGBTQ or POC. The animals are the minority group. But when you have discrimination and sometimes segregation for specific groups in society, you can start to draw parallels.
Good luck with your vegan life from a fellow vegan 🤙
I got banned (rule 5) for downvoting a meme with misleading information. I’m not vegan, but I like the idea in general so I did enjoy seeing content. But things have gone off the rails recently.
This is entirely a mod issue. I’m vegan, and they need to be removed. They are ruining the image of the community so that people like OP start pushing for everyone to block it. If that isn’t ruining the prospects of our cause, then I don’t know what is.
Ah I see. Not sure what is going on then.
Hi there. Things escalated really out of control due to a rogue mod, but the situation has since been resolved, and things should be back to normal.
I’d say not just recently. They’ve stepped it up after the big drama but been at it for a while.
Oh, but the “why do you hate veganism huh??” memes continue. Yeah, it’s definitely the veganism I can’t stand and not the fan club!
Rule 5 - This community is an echo bunker.
The mod isn’t banning people for debating in the comments. A lot of people the mod is banning (myself included) are people who only downvoted posts. Considering that a large portion of the posts are blatantly antagonist things like this, it easy to see why they’re getting downvoted. If you’re going to insult 90% of the users on an instance, then you’re going to get downvoted.
The mod could have made the community private so they could insult people without consequences, but instead, they decided to remain public while banning anyone who downvotes their insults. They want to continue to antagonize the instance while removing the instance’a ability to respond. They want to artificially lower the number of downvotes they get, so it doesn’t look like their antagonistic bullshit is as unpopular as it is.
Everyone could block the community, and if you choose to do that, that’s a reasonable response, but it shouldn’t be the only response. We should be able to express our opinion about the content in our feeds, even if it’s just downvoting it. Why should an entire instance be expected to hide from one abusive community?
Doesn’t help much when one of their users is being so fucking stupid that news of it spreads across all of Lemmy.
If they indeed promoted vegan diets for carnivores then I’m for a ban of the mod / community too. That’s very much animal abuse.
I’ve responded to this before and no one cared but here is the original thread since everyone has greatly exaggerated what was said about cats who are obligate carnivores not obligated to eat meat per se.
https://lemmy.world/post/18691022
I’m not sure I can take the people in that community and what they claim seriously.
I admit I have no idea how to respond to that. Every vegan has different views on their lifestyle. I have two dogs, they eat kibble that has meat in it (they are very picky idk if I can change them to a vegetarian kibble), I homemake simple peanut butter biscuit treats for them, and I brush their teeth with meat flavored toothpaste. This is ok to me but is probably out of line for others. Some vegans would never own a cat and would rather own a rabbit or guinea pig instead. This vegan believes more that we shouldn’t have pets apparently. I don’t have this view so I cannot defend it other than they are trying to reduce harm in their own way.
And they’d ban you for your opinion.
Consider the absurdity of that statement for a second.
How can a non-vegan ask a question about the lifestyle without engaging in a debate? How do you actively interact with information without debating it?
Debates don’t have to be antagonistic. When both parties are genuinely interested in questioning their own values and opinions they can be incredibly rewarding. I can understand a rule against antagonism, but disallowing debates inherently precludes honest questioning for people interested in growing their knowledge on the lifestyle.
The bans seem to be targeting downvotes without other contribution and cheeky comments such as the one in the OP
Well it gets fatiguing to debate all the time, especially when some people are just trolling. But you can ask questions like what do you do for protein, B12, iron, etc. without debating. What are some staples that vegans eat, is it easy to make vegan food, how expensive is vegan food, what does a balanced vegan meal look like, what are some recipes, etc. Even asking can a person thrive on a vegan diet through all stages of life and you’ll probably be given an article or recommended to watch Game Changers.
I think they want to stop the antagonistic people, especially if all they want to do is say: it is only natural to eat meat/we evolved to eat meat, humans have dominion over animals, animals don’t have feelings, vegans are just being overemotional aka only logical people eat meat, it is ok to kill animals, killing animals in factory farms is ok because it is efficient, there isn’t enough land to grow vegan food for everyone, etc. Just shit that’s been responded to a million times and at this point seems bad faith since it’s been debunked before. Maybe they could have a sticky or wiki about these common arguments, idk I am not a mod.
It also matters what your tone is and that can be the difference between someone asking questions in good faith vs someone doing an antagonistic debate. But yeah at this point vegans do not need to question their values or opinions when it comes to their diet and lifestyle. You cannot convince a vegan it is ok to kill an animal for food but you might be able to convince a non-vegan it is wrong to kill an animal for food. Anyway that was just my thoughts on it.
Many people see a post on All, never notice the community name, never read the sidebar, comment, and move on.
The problem is, in my opinion, that they post memes that are clerly provoking non-vegan people for discussion.
It’s weird to jump under a “here are my 15 ways of cooking asparagus” post with anti-vegan content. But “look at these carnovorous clowns” memes are clearly offensive.
Sounds like something a carnivorous clown would say!
(/s)
I don’t think it’s intended to provoke non-vegan people, I think it’s meant to be a ‘for us, by us’ community. PSA to all: there’s a block community button for communities that are not hateful or illegal (you should report those) but are things you’d prefer not to see on your personalized feeds
That’s what private communities are for. Calling people names while perfectly aware of it leaking into the public feed is a provocation. And it worked.
Private communities don’t exist; you can only create an instance and defederate from everyone else. VeganTheoryClub is an instance which defederated from Lemmy.World, for example.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to re: name-calling tbh, and I think this thread is an overreaction, but I agree with you that non-private communities have some obligation to civility or something like that
If that’s the case, I want to know why perfectly innocuous comments are still removed. Seems like they operate on a whim.
Cause over the last few weeks, a bunch of debates over moderation drama have been full of people attacking vegans over the cat taurine debate. That drama is over and it reached a consensus resolution between the mods and admins. If they’ve made an executive judgement that the moderation drama is no longer relevant and baits carnists into breaking rule 5, then removing that debate is a valid application of rule 5.
Odd then that they’re using Rule 5 bans on people like me who never posted to their community
Depends on the context maybe? Idk I am not a mod. I’ve just seen comments about arguing for eating meat or saying something like “I’m going to eat 2 hamburgers now because of you” which are just annoying. I thought that was what this was about. I’ll leave my comments up for anyone else confused.
The heck is going on?
Dunno. Trouble at the mill.
It’s amazing to watch progressives eat themselves in real time on a small scale.