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If this is abt trans men who wanna conform the ‘I love your boobs’ is sth I don’t blame people for being upset about.
I think there’s something to be said here about negotiation in relationships, cause what you want doesn’t necessarily line up with what your partner wants or is comfortable with. I see a lot of people talking like they would just avoid such relationships, but I’m not sure how possible that even is and I don’t think it really reflects the reality of relationships.
There’s like 4 billion cishet women
If someone is fixated with a body part that you loathe, with no respect for your own bodily autonomy, there is no room for “negotiation”. Being single is better than living with someone like that.
I’m more referring to the person that posted the comment, rather than the hypothetical partner. But yeah, I’m not saying that there aren’t boundaries that you should have in relationships, or that you shouldn’t break up with someone if they’re harassing you, I’m mostly saying that the commenter’s thought process reminds me of a closed-minded approach to relationships that I see pretty often.
Oh, I think I misunderstood. Sorry about that.
I don’t get it. Can you please elaborate?
This person has no problem dating someone who identifies as male but is exclusively attracted to “conventionally” female bodies and is expressing that while they would date a trans man, they don’t think it would work because the female traits they are attracted to are the same traits that your average transmasc wouldn’t quite enjoy having.
Ahhhh I get it now. Thanks for the explanation.
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“Karen” is a term to make white women feel isolated and side with right wingers. Any woman who complains about anything, valid or not, can be easily dismissed as just another Karen
To somehow analogize that to trans people is so fucking weird.
Sad thing is I know a Karen and she’s an absolute sweetheart, the kind who would eat the wrong meal if it was delivered to her in a restaurant, and still leave a tip
STOP being OFFENDED you SNOWFLAKE it’s called HUMOR see I’m NOT OFFENDED by the n-word WHY are you SNOWFLAKE
You say that but the cis community started both world wars.
Don’t end the count just yet. I’m sure number 3 will be along soon enough
I hate to say it, but of the 7 trans women I’ve known, 6 have been like this. Everyone is the enemy, giant chip on the shoulder.
I mean, I get it. I grew up very poor, and for a long time any time I saw a rich person I wanted to deck them. Even if they did nothing wrong personally. Because my life was hell and they didn’t have to go through it, and they’re passively contributing to the system that made my life hell. So I hated them.
So yeah, I think trans people are just people, reacting to a hateful and cruel society in the way that any person would.
It is difficult to stay friends with someone like that. A lot of trauma. And collateral damage. I know, I lost friends over my issues.
Strangely enough of the 4 trans men I’ve known, none have been like this. Maybe they just internalized it.
The fresh whiny smell of straw is strong with this one
I feel like generalizing an entire group of people is harmful. Trans people are under heavy scrutiny right now and a hot debate topic if you will, so of course you’ll have some people overreacting because of how tired of fighting every day they are.
You’ll hear the vocal minority, but what about the rest? I am trans and I upvoted that comment and silently left. Am I a “Karen” too?
And don’t assume that every person defending trans stuff is trans, sometimes they’re just allies with good intentions.
Oh fuck off. This is just victim blaming.
What the hell is the context for this, though? Why do they feel the need to proclaim that they would date pre-transition transmen?
Hello, I’m the one in the image
Someone asked me whether I would date trans men.
Hope that clears things up!
Honestly while I don’t think you’re transphobic, I can see how this comment can be seen as transphobic because it implies you know that the guy is trans and the only thing that hasn’t broken you up is that he hasn’t medically transitioned. It’s a bit of a transmedicalist hypothetical and can be seen as somewhat transphobic. I usually just say I’m attracted to women and leave it at that.
The thread in question was asking about the specifics of what straight guys are attracted to.
Okay my b I guess just bad looking out of context thing
I still have trouble imagining how that would come up.
It’s likely you would have to leave your home and socialise with people for this to happen.
Try not to strain that imagination of yours too hard when you could just read the context yourself if you’re so perplexed about it.
And per usual, there are people who claim issues of attraction and consent are transphobic
Here’s the thread
https://casavaga.com/post/16117
ah, ty
Holy shit some of the bait replies in that thread. Whew, that’s a minefield.
Screenshots without the context are the worst
Well, seems like it makes sense in context.
Who the fuck cares if someone isn’t into trans people? We’ve heard it a million times. It’s transphobic because 9 times out of 10, the person saying it isn’t just neutrally expressing a presence they happen to have; they’re saying it because it’s a more socially acceptable way to talk about how disgusting they find our bodies.
Except the thread was specifically talking about whether people who identify as straight are into women or into femininity. The person in the post responded they were into women because he is sexually attracted to women’s curves (namely their breasts) and some ace person decided that it was disgusting for him to say that because they (the ace) don’t find people’s bodies attractive therefore anyone who does find people’s bodies attractive is super gross and the OP was just responding back defending himself. This wasn’t some unsolicited comment about trans people.
lol transphobia is now saying the genitals you prefer a sexual partner to have when directly asked
“9 out of 10 people that don’t want to have sex with me are actually bigots, and definitely not just people with a different sexual preference”
That is very clearly not what I’m saying. That’s not transphobic, but constantly talking about it and shouting how disgusting you find trans bodies and how you’d never fuck them is transphobic. Nobody online cares about your sexual preference; it only matters to your sex partners.
But how is that applicable to this case, where someone was asked about their sexual preference? Someone literally did care in this situation.
I agree with you that the behavior you’re describing would be transphobic, but that’s not what happened here and isn’t what happens “9 times out of 10”.
That’s so obviously not what the problem is here, you’re just misdirecting.
The problem people are having is their weird fixation on the breasts of trans men, and their own admission they’d be a nonstop creep about it.
How am I misdirecting? The person I replied to didn’t even directly mention the comment in the OP, they just made a sweeping generalization.
I didn’t say the comment in the screenshot isn’t weird, but that doesn’t mean stating your sexual preference when asked is transphobic like they said.
Believe it or not, but it IS transphobic to deliberately keep triggering someone’s dysphoria like that.
Are you even reading these comments? Please show me somewhere that I said that isn’t transphobic. I just said it was weird because that was the same verbage you used, and I will also agree with you that it’s transphobic.
That isn’t what was being talked about in this comment thread.
The post itself is saying it isn’t.
I didn’t reply to the post, I replied to someone’s comment that I disagreed with. That someone made no reference to the post.
Edit: sorry, no reference other than “who the fuck cares”, I guess.
Well, I apologise for misconstruing you then.
Oh hey that’s me
Haha transphobic
“I hate to say it, but of the 7 trans women I’ve known, 6 have been like this. Everyone is the enemy, giant chip on the shoulder.” You in response to some saying trans people are the karens of lgbtq+
You’re a shit excuse for an ally and need to fuck off. Imagine being told your take is shit and transphobic and putting this much energy into denying it rather than learning from it
Found another one
I thought of the “I love your boobs” situation was funny to think about but actually pretty genuine imo. It wouldn’t be healthy to have conflicting preferences for your partner’s body goals, regardless of the labels assigned.
How does it feel to literally be a literal nazi?
Heil Titler
Anyone who would go out of their way to make their partner feel dysphoric needs to fuck off and stop claiming to be an ally
Comments are a warzone. TURN BACK, CASUAL BROWSER!!!
shoulda listened the discourse is overwhelming
Was my report the other day good?
I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but that comment is actually pretty fucking gross. If the hypothetical trans guy is fine with his boobs, no problem. But the insinuation that OOP would keep “complimenting” someone on a part of their body that makes them dysphoric is just sickening.
I’m a trans girl. I really don’t like having a flat chest, it makes me dysphoric. Yes, there are girls with flat chests, both cis and trans, that are fine with that, and yes, I do find girls with flat chests attractive too. But if someone went up to me and kept telling me my flat chest was hot, despite knowing that it made me, uncomfortable, I’d fucking deck them.
Lol really you would assault them?
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Hence why the dating thing probably wouldn’t work out
And yet you’d try it anyway, and be a transphobic asshole about it. Fuck off, you’re a shit ally and you’re not welcome here
What? This was a hypothetical scenario. You’re making up something to be mad at.
Why would I try a relationship with someone who hates - and wants to remove - a part of themselves that I enjoy? That sounds like the opposite of fun
Good question, why don’t you try answering it rather than continuing to shit on the people you call yourself an ally to? If the answer is “I wouldn’t date a non-op trans man” then just fucking say that instead of insinuating that you would date them and treat them like shit
this is coming from a staunch fucking ally that has been there for more than a couple of friends that have transitioned.
but you gotta realize the outside world is not beholden to your preferences or desires. and if someone else runs counter to that, it’s literally as simple as not dating the guy.
he stated his preference. he likes breasts. he doesn’t like dicks. he would likely say that he likes breasts because as is obvious, the dude likes em. so it someone had a problem with that type of complimenting, it’d probably not work out.
sooooooooooooooooooooo there’s literally no problem here except you’re feeling attacked. with the amount of things y’all have to put up with in society, i understand y’all’s bitterness and anger and exasperation and frustration with any interactions. but this seems a silly hill to die on. it’s a dude’s preference.
Are you thick? I’m saying that thinking that’s an acceptable thing to say about someone’s body in that context, regardless of whether you’re daring them or not, is actually fucked in the head.
Also, that’s an absolute classic opening to your argument: “I’m an ally, but … Wait! Wait! I have trans friends so that automatically makes me correct about any transgender issues whatsoever!” Never heard that before. /s
“My friend’s daughter’s step sister is dating a black person”
*proceeds to say the most racist shit you will ever hear
The whole point of the comment is that he knows it’s not an acceptable thing to say, that’s why he’s not doing it.
You’re not an ally. If you have to start of a sentence by saying you’re an ally and have friends in a marginalized group, you’re already starting off wrong. You’re talking down to a trans person for stating what they don’t like about something. Maybe if you wanted to explain how it is actually just preference, but your comment is entirely about “trans people having victim complexes”.
Not dating the guy is fine. But being okay with dating someone pre-transition specifically for the things they do not like is gross. Trans men are not women. Do you have any idea how many of us enter relationships with people who say they support us, then do anything they can to prevent us from being who we want to be? Specifically common with trans men. If he said, “no I’m straight I don’t date men” that’d just be preference. But he’s saying “yeah I’d date a trans dude if they essentially weren’t trans”. That’s shitty.
if i say “look i’d date my buddy steve but he doesn’t have tits and he does have a dick, and it just so happens that i like tits and i don’t like dick.”
that’s me saying “yes steve’s a standup guy and sure i could theoretically date him but there are glaring differences in my preferences and his equipment.”
that’s not homophobic. that’s not transphobic. it’s a manner of speaking in a comedic tone in a community that is based in comedy.
and my guy/gal, you don’t know me or what i’ve done throughout my life, so starting in with a declarative “you’re not an ally!” really? jump to conclusions much? i can still be a staunch ally for someone’s rights and equal treatment and still say “preferences are preferences”. it may not be an ally on your perfect terms, and i’m okay with that.
i’m going to state anything to anyone the way i would another person, regardless of sexual preference, gender, race, religion, whatever. and if that person doesn’t like something, that’s their prerogative.
I’m saying actual allies don’t have to remind people that they’re allies.
“I’m a great ally, but you transes are just overreacting to this transphobic asshole!” fuck off
That’s kinda the point though isn’t it?
The commenter was pointing out how they personally like boobs, and in the context of a relationship with a trans man who is dysphoric about that kind of thing it would make the relationship uncomfortable. They’re not bringing up this example to insinuate that they would harrass a partner like this, they’re bringing it up to say they wouldn’t wanna do that. I don’t think they’re saying they think it’s acceptable.
If they think it isn’t acceptable, why do they think that way?
They posted the entire comment section this came from further down, and based on reading the exchange this was them saying that they would probably only date a pre-transition trans man if they were comfortable with him liking their boobs.
So I’m unsure what “way” you’re implying they’re thinking.
I didn’t really get that impression of them, but if that’s what they believe I guess that’s alright.
One of their other comments here, which painted trans women as narcissists for hating bigots, didn’t exactly sit well with me though.
I’m not sure if I would characterize what they said as calling trans women narcissists (the comment they were responding to definitely did though). But yeah, it’s doesn’t sit right with me either.
Why are you calling the hypothetical disgusting when the hypothetical itself admits it would be unpleasant? It’s a hypothetical. They’re using it as an example of why it wouldn’t work. They wouldn’t be doing it for real because the situation doesn’t even exist. It’s like getting angry at someone for saying “I would drink too much alcohol if it were in my house” when they’re saying why they don’t keep alcohol in the house by saying “I find it disgusting this person would even consider drinking too much alcohol if they had it in their house” like yeah that’s why they don’t have alcohol in their house.
You’re making a false equivalence there, comparing a drug to a human being with thoughts and feelings. If you change your sentence to “I would abuse my partner if I had one”, one involving an actual human being, people would be telling you to get therapy even if you remained single, because it’s unhealthy way to think about human beings.
I’m not equating abusing alcohol to abusing people, it was a poor word choice on my part, I should’ve said something like “drink too much alcohol” to make that more clear. I’ll edit that so it doesn’t look like that’s what I’m doing.
I don’t think you understand my rebuttal. My point is that you’re equating a substance abuse problem with treating someone with basic respect. They are fundamentally different issues.
I’m equating people’s desires to avoid those situations. Not the situations themselves.
I see. I don’t necessarily see those as equal either, but I respect your opinion.
Yeah, they’re just stating their sexual preference. Maybe a bit insensitive in the wording about the boobs but still not transphobic.
Edit: Wowee The comments turned into a shitshow 14 hours later. As a trans person, please disregard Unmarketable Plushie. They speak without understanding the greater context and do so with animosity, leading them to have to apologize multiple times in this post alone. Please know that most of the trans community is not like that and the inflammatory attitude you see there is generally (thankfully) only in online spaces, not irl.
I see this the same way as someone saying “I really find overweight people attractive, so I’d be open to dating them if they were self conscious about it but it would probably be a deal breaker because I like it and they dislike it about themselves.” I see this as a totally rational take.
Exactly. Not necessarily perfect phrasing but the right intent behind the words
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I get called transphobe when I mention how I can’t understand the desire to remove a body part or how it really feels to feel one way when you are physically born another. I don’t care if you do, or have that desire/feeling! I just can’t put myself into a space where I fully understand it. And that should be ok. I don’t have to understand it or walk in those specific shoes to be okay with someone else who does. I don’t have to understand exactly how someone feels in their specific situation to empathize or sympathize with their plights; I can draw on my understanding of other, but similar or closely related issues and apply that knowledge. The way one might apply knowledge of one game in another they’ve never played before.
Very strange. I would only say that I don’t get it if I was asked if I ever felt that way. Otherwise, I would simply not make my own irrelevant feelings about my own body known to strangers
How is that coming up in conversation though? Do you see someone talking about SRS and immediately insert yourself and give your own opinion on something irrelevant to you, completely unsolicited? Because I don’t think many trans people are asking random cis people about their thoughts on SRS, I can’t think of any other circumstance that would necessitate you giving your opinion on something completely irrelevant to you if you, as you say “don’t care if you do, or have that desire/feeling.” You can certainly feel this way, but coming into a trans space so you can explain to them that you don’t “understand it,” for no reason seems pretty transphobic.
An analogy would be, if someone went up to you after you mentioned something very important to your identity, beliefs or who you are and started explaining to you how they just don’t get it or can’t understand why you believe or resonate with this thing for no reason. It’s disrespectful.
That’s a thoroughly convincing perspective. I suppose we will never truly know the story for sure behind what OP said, but I would like to give the benefit of the doubt that perhaps these conversations were had respectfully at an appropriate time and place. But also, knowing the bad-faith approach many take when talking about trans rights, it is hard not to lean on the possibility that there is mal-intent.
Usually through questions trying to gain understanding from people who do feel that way, in public discussions on that topic.
IDK why you assume I’m talking about inserting myself into a private conversation, or one that has nothing to do with the topic; and this is the same type of jumping the gun bullshit I was talking about in the first place.
This is a forum for discussing stuff online.
I don’t think any persons opinion is “unsolicited” here… if hearing other opinions isn’t something you are game to do, you could go outside or something other than browse a website for sharing opinions/etc.
Then the original commenter should stop bitching when people call them a transphobe. If they can’t handle other people’s opinions of them they should just go outside.
Agreed 👍
I appreciated hearing about their experience as much as I enjoyed hearing about yours.
I guess it depends on what we come here to gain. I’m here to better understand people. Why are you here?
There is a line, and there is moderation for personal attack, i thought the goal of lemmy or any moderated site is to dicuss topic with at least a bit of respect for each other, if not than it may as well be twitter.